4K With Skylake - Possible Without Graphics Card?

[sneezy]

Anyone have any comments?

As far as I can tell, the motherboard does not have bluetooth built in. In looking in the recommended builds, it looks like a USB bluetooth adapter is recommended. Are there any other options?

 

[NicoD]

The list of products is:
I5-6400 FC-LGA14C 2.70 Ghz 6 M Processor Cache 4 LGA 1151 BX80662I56400
Gigabyte LGA1151 Intel Z170 ATX DDR4 Motherboards GA-Z170X-UD5
Corsair CS Series, CS650M, 650 Watt (650W),
TP-LINK N900 2.4GHz or 5GHz up to 450Mbps Wireless Dual Band PCI
Samsung 850 EVO - 500GB - 2.5-Inch SATA III Internal SSD (MZ-75E500B/AM)
Crucial 16GB Kit (8GBx2) DDR4 2133 MT/s (PC4-17000) CL15 DR x8 Non-ECC UDIMM 288-Pin Memory
Dell Ultra HD 4K Monitor P2415Q 24-Inch Screen
Corsair Carbide Series Black 300R Mid-Tower Computer Case

Total is $1171.83.

I have to pick a keyboard. I might go with the normal wired Mac keyboard. I love the wireless mouse.
Don't need the Wifi since I have Ethernet at my desk, so I may drop that.
I will also add an internal SATA hard drive.

I am not savvy enough to comment on your choice of mobo and CPU but I would about a couple of other items:
PSU: if you don't intend to add a GPU or if so you intend to get a low end one, IMHO you don't need such a powerful PSU. 500W or 550W would be enough.
RAM: do yourself a favor, start with 32GB (a 2x16GB set). Applications hog more and more memory.
Case: I picked the Corsair Carbide Series 200R Compact ATX Case that looks practically the same and is quite good.
Keyboard: take the Apple standard (with wire). It's a no-brainer for me.
Mouse: stay away from Apple's.
Nick

 

[kiiroaka]

The GA-Z170X-UD5 looks like a keeper. No PCI slots, Two Intel NICs, ALC1150 audio, DP, HDMI, DL-DVI-D, USB 1.1/2.0/3.0/3.1, PCI-E X16/X8/X4/(4)X1, (2) m.2 SATA, (6)SATA3, 2/4/5.1/7.1 & S/PDIF Out. It has all the bells and whistles.

1. 1 x DisplayPort, supporting a maximum resolution of 4096x2304@60 Hz
   * Support for DisplayPort 1.2 version.

You should be able to drive a 4K monitor at 4K@60HZ without problems. OSX install should be painless and seamless.

You can probably find a used G3/G4/G5 MAC keyboard cheap.

300R: Nice case, but I objected to the size of the exhaust holes in the top of the case. If you go with a top exhaust fan you will probably end up removing the magnetic stripped dust cover for better air flow. While the top exhaust area can accept two 140mm fans, I really wanted the front and rear to be also 140mm. I also would have liked the front fan to cool the disc drives, and have no more than two 5" front bays. (Heck, I would have liked a 120mm or 140mm where the 3 CDRom bays are - to cool the RAM, but no one makes a case like that. I loved the quick drive connects. Nice... And the extra large wire harness routing holes. Very nice. (You'd have to compare to my Antec 302 to know what I mean.)) After you get your Corsair 300R setup you probably won't think about it too much.

I don't particularly like Corsair PSUs, other than the RMx series (which are probably made by Seasonic.) I prefer a PSU with all Japanese capacitors. The Seasonics are basically quiet.

G.Skill:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231792 DDR4-2400 16GB $76
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231796 DDR4-2400 32G $135
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231968 DDR4-2400 64G $220

I find that the G.Skill stuff has better timings than the Corsairs, and the Corsairs tend to be more expensive than the G.Skill.

Corsair:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233773 DDR4 2400 16GB $89 (CAS14 instead of G.Skill CAS15)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233718 DDR4 2400 32GB $159 (ditto)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233714 DDR4 2400 32GB $220 (Dominator)

But I'm sure you've done your homework...

 

[NicoD]

Anyone have any comments?
As far as I can tell, the motherboard does not have bluetooth built in. In looking in the recommended builds, it looks like a USB bluetooth adapter is recommended. Are there any other options?

Actually, if I were you, the wisest move would be to cancel the whole project.
I am still struggling to make the GPU work. It looks helpless.
This hackintoch was just a self-defeating plan. The purpose was to gain time on certain processes I do on my Mac Mini and I ended up wasting far more time on the most trivial procedures than I can ever recoup in my whole life. Maybe you'll be luckier than I was: practically every single thing went wrong, probably because of my own mistakes. It was way beyond my capacity.
I regret the day I decided to launch this idiotic project. So if you never did such a thing proceed at your own risks.
Nick

 

[sneezy]

I am not savvy enough to comment on your choice of mobo and CPU but I would about a couple of other items:
PSU: if you don't intend to add a GPU or if so you intend to get a low end one, IMHO you don't need such a powerful PSU. 500W or 550W would be enough.
RAM: do yourself a favor, start with 32GB (a 2x16GB set). Applications hog more and more memory.
Case: I picked the Corsair Carbide Series 200R Compact ATX Case that looks practically the same and is quite good.
Keyboard: take the Apple standard (with wire). It's a no-brainer for me.
Mouse: stay away from Apple's.
Nick

Thanks for the response.

I was wondering about the power supply. I do not plan on putting in a GPU - for now. When I was looking at the 500W vs. 600W, there was only a $10 difference. Is there any disadvantage to putting in a 600W?

The "CS" series of power supplies is less expensive than the "RM". Is there any advantage to the "RM"? I don't want to have to replace my power supply in 3 years. I have read the marketing bull from Corsair. It would be nice to know the size (mfd) and voltage of the caps and any other 'hard' information.

As to memory, I have 8 GB now, so the thought of 16 GB seems great. And I will have two open slots to add memory later if I feel I need it. Being able to add memory is a huge advantage of building my own.

 

[sneezy]

The GA-Z170X-UD5 looks like a keeper. No PCI slots, Two Intel NICs, ALC1150 audio, DP, HDMI, DL-DVI-D, USB 1.1/2.0/3.0/3.1, PCI-E X16/X8/X4/(4)X1, (2) m.2 SATA, (6)SATA3, 2/4/5.1/7.1 & S/PDIF Out. It has all the bells and whistles.


But I'm sure you've done your homework...

LOL. Being new to this, doing my homework is tough. There are opinions and opinions....

As to the case, I am just following the recommendations at tonymac. In some situations, the recommendations are out of date. I noticed that the 300R has been replaced with a newer model.

I had not even considered fans. The Corsair cabinet comes with two built in, plus I will have one on the CPU and another in the power supply. Isn't that enough considering that I am not running a GPU inside? I thought this new line of Intel processors was supposed to be more efficient and run cooler?

I am relying on Tonymac for items like the power supply. I suspect that other brands would work just as well here given that they all provide the same voltages? I cannot imagine the MacOS would be sensitive to what power supply is connected?!

 

[sneezy]

Actually, if I were you, the wisest move would be to cancel the whole project.
I am still struggling to make the GPU work. It looks helpless.
This hackintoch was just a self-defeating plan. The purpose was to gain time on certain processes I do on my Mac Mini and I ended up wasting far more time on the most trivial procedures than I can ever recoup in my whole life. Maybe you'll be luckier than I was: practically every single thing went wrong, probably because of my own mistakes. It was way beyond my capacity.
I regret the day I decided to launch this idiotic project. So if you never did such a thing proceed at your own risks.
Nick

I am sorry to hear this NicoD. Purchasing from Apple would be my preference. I have had an iMac since 2008 and, except for the dead DVD/CD drive, has given me zero issues.

But I dislike the concept of the all-in-one design. I was able to add to the RAM in my iMac. No more. And if I have a power supply issue, etc......

NicoD, I understand you struggled with the project. Was there anything major besides the 2K issue with your monitor?

My wife does not want me to do this. She does not want to hear my aggravation.....

 

[kiiroaka]

I have 8 GB now, so the thought of 16 GB seems great. And I will have two open slots to add memory later if I feel I need it. Being able to add memory is a huge advantage of building my own.

That could be a problem. If you install 1 board, that is a kit of 1. If you install two boards that were packaged together, that is a kit of one. If you install two separate boards that were packaged individually, that is a kit of 2. If you mix kits, even from the same manufacturer, even with the same part numbers, even with the same chips, you could have compatibility problems. Maybe it will work fine, maybe it won't. I'm sure that certain boards are more sensitive than others. Chances are that the faster the stick is the less likely that it will work. So, 2133 may work, but 3400 will likely not.

My reasoning is that if you are going to install 16GB, then it is probably better to install 4x4 than 2x8 because all four slots will be populated.

Here's a response to some problems ASUS Rog users were experiencing:
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthrea...e-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-overview

It depends on the mobo and the OS - some will have no problem mixing kits, others will only have problems. (Back in the old NT4.0 days if you mixed kits you were certain to get BSODs. The fix was to install all-the-same-memory (manufacturer, density, chip timings, circuit boards - they all had to have the same part number and then they had tro be checked that they were all identical.) At work I'll get machines with 2x1G sticks and a stray 256MB stick. I tear out the 256MB stick and throw it in the trash. Many times the machine comes in because it won't image, other times because it BSODs in the middle of the day. I check the mobo capacitors and replace any that have pop-corned, then run memory diags before trying to image.)

Yeah, you could install one 8G stick today, maybe even a kit of two 8G sticks. A year from now you may want to see if another kit from the same manufacturer will make the machine run smoother. It may; it may not. If it doesn't you may be able to send it back. But what then? Chances are you'll try another manufacturer. And the same thing happens. You'll try shifting the sticks around, to see if that works. Or you'll just take out the two 8G sticks and throw in four 16G sticks. I know that I went that route with my G5, where I started with two 2G DDR 4200 sticks, went to eight DDR 5300 sticks, then went to eight 2G DDR 6400 sticks. And yes, there times when I had mixed speeds in there. Seeing that each time I increased my memory, and/or upgraded my video card, the machine got smoother. Before I built my present PC I was thinking of upgrading to 32GB. I was still running OSX 10.5.8, but that hardly mattered. What concerned me was the long load times when having 1, 2, 3, 4 dozen tabs open at the same time. Then it took forever. So, when I built my system I had to decide whether to go Z97 or Z170. At the time Skylake was having many problems, so I went with Z97 and the max mem of 32GB (1 kit). When using HDDs programs take about 2 seconds to fully open but I can have two or three browsers open at the same time, each with a dozen tabs open and I have no problems.

My concern is always SSDs. IMO, one should have the max amount of memory the mobo can take so that there is no disk thrashing, no disk swapping, so that one can set up VRAM to run a browser, for example, so that the browser caches don't run on the SSD but rather on mobo memory (NAND).

So, just like me, you may start thinking that you can add 16GB later, but chances are that if you start with 2133 now you'll want 3200 a year from now and 4200 three years from now (after the prices have dropped sufficiently enough to be able to afford it. You can get DDR4 4200 now - it's just that it costs about $500 for about 8G (4x2G?) (or was it 16G (4x4G)?)) Regardless, it's expensive. So m suggestion is to up the speed and bite your lip as you max out the memory. Five years from now you will probably move on to another machine, and will probably relegate this machine to Linux. (I can remember when having 4x512MB of RAM was a lot in Linux.) And I can also remember when it took less than 6 seconds for my Apple SE30 to boot and open a blank Word document. So, it's all relative - you may not need that mem now but chances are you will in the future. Do you save now and spend in the future? Or do you spend now and save in the future? I suggest you spend twice as much now and save twice as much in the future.

Some light reading: http://www.techradar.com/news/compu...ram-10-memory-kits-reviewed-and-rated-1085281 Has some insights. Who knew that heat spreaders were just hype? Skylake RAM is rated at 1.2V so it's not exactly a space heater. MY DDR3 is rated at 1.65V and I'm not about to crank up the voltage to try and get more performance out of it. If I want more performance I should have bought faster RAM in the first place. [As a few sites have said, the internal speed of the CPU has marginalized the need for the fastest speed (throughput/bandwidth). But not for max RAM. That's why some guys will stick with X99, so that they can run 128GB of RAM. (I'm no Superman who makes money from his machine. But the guys over at DreamWorks probably have max RAM running on their workstations.)]

http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2010/07/what-are-the-rules-on-mixing-two-different-types-of-ram/ DDR3 article.

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Here's JohnnGuru's review of the Corsair CS550: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&file=print&reid=366
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If you look at your QVL you may notice that some of the 2133 is more expensive than the 2400.

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/compatible-upgrade-for/Giga-Byte/ga-z170x-ud5

I know that mem prices seem expensive. Paying $250 for 64GB may look ridiculous, but I paid that for 32GB 7 months ago. I wouldn't be surprised if a year from now you can get 64G for $150 - probably because everyone will be buying 4200 RAM for $350. Today you'll be paying $248 - $264 for Crucial 4x16 kits. Go with another manufacturer and you can probably knock off $40. But it may not be as good as Crucial, or Corsiar, or Kingston, etc. & et. al.

 

[kiiroaka]

Actually, if I were you, the wisest move would be to cancel the whole project. I am still struggling to make the GPU work. It looks helpless.

The on-board video? It may very well be hopeless. But an inexpensive video card may be an easy solution.

 

[NicoD]

I was wondering about the power supply. I do not plan on putting in a GPU - for now. When I was looking at the 500W vs. 600W, there was only a $10 difference. Is there any disadvantage to putting in a 600W?

Not that I know of. If there is such a little difference in price I think you can go for it.

The "CS" series of power supplies is less expensive than the "RM". Is there any advantage to the "RM"? I don't want to have to replace my power supply in 3 years. I have read the marketing bull from Corsair. It would be nice to know the size (mfd) and voltage of the caps and any other 'hard' information.

I can't help you. But beware that this kind of discussion sounds like muscle car drivers comparing the tires available for their Corvettes whereas you drive a Toyota. Their issues are not yours and their demands can be self-defeating for you.
Beware about the cables. With mine there are lots of Molex 4 pins connectors (an obsolete type AFAIK) and very few SATA ones with too short cables. I had to buy a SATA Power Y Cable Adapter.
BTW, beware also about the number of SATA data cables provided with your mobo. There was only two with mine. Order additional ones if you have more than two drives. I have 1 HD, 1 CD/DVD drive, 1 SSD and probably 2 in the future.

As to memory, I have 8 GB now, so the thought of 16 GB seems great. And I will have two open slots to add memory later if I feel I need it. Being able to add memory is a huge advantage of building my own.

Actually memory is my #1 issue. I have 16GB on my Mac Mini and I constantly run out of memory, at 99%. I'm using Adobe Bridge, DxO OpticsPro and Affinity that all hog the memory like nuts. It's one of the rationales for building my hackintosh. I keep the option of putting 64GB in the future.

As to the case, I am just following the recommendations at tonymac. In some situations, the recommendations are out of date. I noticed that the 300R has been replaced with a newer model.
I had not even considered fans. The Corsair cabinet comes with two built in, plus I will have one on the CPU and another in the power supply. Isn't that enough considering that I am not running a GPU inside? I thought this new line of Intel processors was supposed to be more efficient and run cooler?

My Corsair case is a 200 and I am pretty sure it's quite enough for needs like yours an mine. There is plenty of air flow.
One of the other important specs for me was the CD/DVD and other external drives bays (3 of them).
You have plenty of 3'5 and 2'5 internal drives bays too.
A number of cases have their front USB 3 ports placed on top. That's a no-no for me. I need them to be on the front panel.

I am relying on Tonymac for items like the power supply. I suspect that other brands would work just as well here given that they all provide the same voltages? I cannot imagine the MacOS would be sensitive to what power supply is connected?!

MacOS no but your mobo and other gears certainly yes.

I am sorry to hear this NicoD. Purchasing from Apple would be my preference.
I have had an iMac since 2008 and, except for the dead DVD/CD drive, has given me zero issues.
But I dislike the concept of the all-in-one design. I was able to add to the RAM in my iMac. No more. And if I have a power supply issue, etc......

I would gladly pay the price for a genuine Mac… if only Apple was still selling one. I bought the first one in 1987 (a Mac 512). Then I bought a Mac IIcx that I still own. I had a G3 and a G5 too. That was computers. Then I owned an iMac and after I had to open it to change the HD and dust the interior I decided “never again“. Today Minis are ridiculous and Pros are outrageous.

NicoD, I understand you struggled with the project. Was there anything major besides the 2K issue with your monitor?

Issues started with the very first step of booting on OS X because I had missed certain settings in the UEFI. Then as soon as one issue was solved an other one came out of the blue. The problem here is that people are very helpful but a) they are like muscle car drivers while you own a Toyota and b) because of that plenty of concepts are just so trivial for them whereas totally unknown for traditional Mac users like you and I that it's a constant misunderstanding.
I just don't understand most of the texts and the discussions I read.
OTOH, after what I had read I was worried in advance about the Firewire card and the CD/DVD drive I added and about the LAN. They all started as a breeze.

My wife does not want me to do this. She does not want to hear my aggravation.....

She is right. It's fortunate I am a bachelor. It has been at least a month of constant ranting with me. It was driving me so nuts I just couldn't sleep last night. I spent part of the night trying to make the darn thing work. I eventually succeeded but I am absolutely worn out and I can't even enjoy using it so POed I am about the time and energy I wasted on it. The sucker is sitting by my desk and I am still using my Mini.
On one hand I would say “never again“ but on the other I am now seasoned and would probably succeed with the next one more easily.

Nick