Nvidia Drivers for Mojave 10.14 Not Available, no WorkAround works well

[Cindori]

The market demand would have exploded since the release of Mojave (and new Mac Mini's) since the eGPU support has been so drastically improved. The fact that nVidia supported Mac so intensely (driver releases within days of new macOS) before, when it was exclusively older Mac Pro's and Hackintoshes that used them, and now offers absolutely no support, leads me to believe this is a policy decision by higher-ups at Apple and nothing else.

 

[pastrychef]

The market demand would have exploded since the release of Mojave (and new Mac Mini's) since the eGPU support has been so drastically improved. The fact that nVidia supported Mac so intensely (driver releases within days of new macOS) before, when it was exclusively older Mac Pro's and Hackintoshes that used them, and now offers absolutely no support, leads me to believe this is a policy decision by higher-ups at Apple and nothing else.

I'm guessing they just don't have Metal 2 drivers ready.

Regardless of whether Apple wants Nvidia to release drivers or not, there's no policy they can implement to prevent Nvidia from doing so.

 

[Cindori]

I'm guessing they just don't have Metal 2 drivers ready.

Regardless of whether Apple wants Nvidia to release drivers or not, there's no policy they can implement to prevent Nvidia from doing so.

It is perfectly within Apple's control of whether Nvidia can develop drivers for their platform or not. Most likely, they require closed source and documentation to do so, and it is for Apple to decide whether to cooperate with them or not.

Metal 2 offers incremental changes vs "Metal 1". There is no way this is the bottleneck.

 

[pastrychef]

It is perfectly within Apple's control of whether Nvidia can develop drivers for their platform or not. Most likely, they require closed source and documentation to do so, and it is for Apple to decide whether to cooperate with them or not.

Metal 2 offers incremental changes vs "Metal 1". There is no way this is the bottleneck.

No, it's not. If Apple told Nvidia they can't develop drivers to sell Nvidia cards to Mac users, they would be guilty of anti-competitive behavior. That's why Apple can't stop Spotify from developing an app that competes with Apple Music on the iPhone.

If Apple tried, they would not only bring a law suit amongst themselves form Nvidia, they may very well also force the FTC to step in.

It's the same reason Gillette can't prevent generic blades from being sold that work with their razors.

 

[AlphaFox]

Regardless of whether Apple wants Nvidia to release drivers or not, there's no policy they can implement to prevent Nvidia from doing so.

This is my thought - they are blaming apple but why does it matter what apple thinks, they should just be able to release a drive like in the past.

 

[Cindori]

Apple is not forced under any "anti-competitive clause" to cooperate or provide closed source and documentation for developing a display driver with Metal 2. Not that these companies resort to such petty behavior anyway. They would prefer to cultivate a long term relationship.

That's why Apple can't stop Spotify from developing an app that competes with Apple Music on the iPhone.

A more correct analogy would be: Spotify on the Apple Homepod. Apple Music is on there, Spotify is not. Simply because Apple has not made the tools and means available for Spotify to be present on that platform. You don't see any "anti-competitive lawsuits" thrown around because ultimately hardware/software vendors are free to cooperate with whomever they wish.

 

[remington]

No, it's not. If Apple told Nvidia they can't develop drivers to sell Nvidia cards to Mac users, they would be guilty of anti-competitive behavior. That's why Apple can't stop Spotify from developing an app that competes with Apple Music on the iPhone.

Apple have sole rights to macOS source codes as its their own intellectual property. Nvidia have no rights to it. Developing graphic drivers requires low level programming that bypass many of macOS security features isn't possible without Apple providing the necessary tools and documentations for those specific areas. I don't see how this is anti-competitive.

There are public documentations to develop software that works with Metal driver but there is no public documentations for Metal driver to interact with the operating system at the low level.

If Apple did provide Nvidia the necessary tools and documentations and it is entirely up to Nvidia to develop Metal compliant drivers. Nobody is forcing Nvidia to do anything.

That's why I said the blame goes both ways.

 

[pastrychef]

Apple is not forced under any "anti-competitive clause" to cooperate or provide closed source and documentation for developing a display driver with Metal 2. Not that these companies resort to such petty behavior anyway. They would prefer to cultivate a long term relationship.



A more correct analogy would be: Spotify on the Apple Homepod. Apple Music is on there, Spotify is not. Simply because Apple has not made the tools and means available for Spotify to be present on that platform. You don't see any "anti-competitive lawsuits" thrown around because ultimately hardware/software vendors are free to cooperate with whomever they wish.

What you are saying now is very different from what you previously said. Previously, you said Apple policy is preventing Nvidia from releasing drivers.

Not providing the tools/libraries/API to Nvidia is an entirely different matter. If this were true, then Nvidia would never have been able to develop macOS drivers in the past.

The HomePod doesn't have an open operating system for you to install 3rd party apps. If/when Spotify manages to develop a means to get their software on the HomePod, Apple can't stop them.

 

[pastrychef]

Apple have sole rights to macOS source codes as its their own intellectual property. Nvidia have no rights to it. Developing graphic drivers requires low level programming that bypass many of macOS security features isn't possible without Apple providing the necessary tools and documentations for those specific areas. I don't see how this is anti-competitive.

There are public documentations to develop software that works with Metal driver but there is no public documentations for Metal driver to interact with the operating system at the low level.

If Apple did provide Nvidia the necessary tools and documentations and it is entirely up to Nvidia to develop Metal compliant drivers. Nobody is forcing Nvidia to do anything.

That's why I said the blame goes both ways.

Okay. Apple owns macOS. They never gave Nvidia tools/libraries/API? How did Nvidia ever develop macOS drivers in the past? What has changed now?

Everyone seems to be trying to come up with new reasons to blame Apple.

First it was that they wouldn't sign Nvidia drivers.
Then, it was because Apple told Nvidia not to release drivers.
Then, it was because of an exclusive contract with AMD.
Now, Apple didn't give Nvidia the tools necessary to develop drivers.

How much of these speculations you guys are making are backed up with evidence?

 

[remington]

Okay. Apple owns macOS. They never gave Nvidia tools/libraries/API? How did Nvidia ever develop macOS drivers in the past? What has changed now?

Everyone seems to be trying to come up with new reasons to blame Apple.

First it was that they wouldn't sign Nvidia drivers.
Then, it was because Apple told Nvidia not to release drivers.
Then, it was because of an exclusive contract with AMD.
Now, Apple didn't give Nvidia the tools necessary to develop drivers.

How much of these speculations you guys are making are backed up with evidence?

Apple did supply Nvidia the tools needed to develop drivers for pre-Mojave OS but we have no idea if Apple provided Nvidia the Metal compliant driver tools and documentations for Mojave. They probably did or did not but Nvidia refused to act on it or dragging their feet. We don't know but we do know that Apple pointed finger at Nvidia and Nvidia pointed finger at Apple.

Well think about this as why Nvidia had to release new driver for EVERY major and minor macOS updates? They could release a driver that will work for all minor updates. So that tells me that Nvidia need permission or signed kext from Apple so Apple has more control on this.