Asus Z690 ProArt Creator WiFi (Thunderbolt 4) + i7-12700K + AMD RX 6800 XT

[CaseySJ]

Apologies. Meant Monterey 12.4 (Will change my post)

Edit:
AppleVTD is enabled. No bus.

The Apple Thunderbolt to Gigabit adapter does need to be connected before boot. If Thunderbolt Bus is enabled, hot plug is functional. I just hot plugged that device (via Apple's Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter) without success in Monterey 12.5 beta 1 on the Asus system, but native Thunderbolt 3 devices hot plug properly. Of course, some TB3 devices such as NAS drives require Thunderbolt Networking, which in turn requires Thunderbolt Bus.

 

[gandem]

The Apple Thunderbolt to Gigabit adapter does need to be connected before boot. If Thunderbolt Bus is enabled, hot plug is functional. I just hot plugged that device (via Apple's Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter) without success in Monterey 12.5 beta 1 on the Asus system, but native Thunderbolt 3 devices hot plug properly. Of course, some TB3 devices such as NAS drives require Thunderbolt Networking, which in turn requires Thunderbolt Bus.

Thank you for the confirmation. My OWC Envoy Express (NVMe) does not hot plug. My CalDigit TS4 does not hot plug and must be looped through the UltraFine monitor to work. Does not work at all connected directly to the ProArt. So, I'm narrowing this down to the Apple TB3/2 adapter. I have many TB2 Lacie SSD's which do not hot plug via the adapter. The Envoy Express is native TB3, although I haven't seen what TB chip it uses. Further testing does show that the CalDigit TS3+ does hot plug now. I don't believe it did when I first built the system.

 

[dehjomz]

What TB firmware do you have on the Formula?

V30

 

[dehjomz]

Thank you for the confirmation. My OWC Envoy Express (NVMe) does not hot plug. My CalDigit TS4 does not hot plug and must be looped through the UltraFine monitor to work. Does not work at all connected directly to the ProArt. So, I'm narrowing this down to the Apple TB3/2 adapter. I have many TB2 Lacie SSD's which do not hot plug via the adapter. The Envoy Express is native TB3, although I haven't seen what TB chip it uses. Further testing does show that the CalDigit TS3+ does hot plug now. I don't believe it did when I first built the system.

So some TB3 devices hot plug?

 

[maxxx]

Hello @Elias64Fr

I'm afraid this has led to some counter-intuitive results!

View attachment 542025

Hi Casey,

Were you able to fix this? Now I got mine working with Geekbench.

and this config.

 

[CaseySJ]

Hi Casey,

Were you able to fix this? Now I got mine working with Geekbench.

View attachment 548520
View attachment 548521
and this config.
View attachment 548522

Hello @maxxx,

We used this approach successfully in Monterey 12.3 (iirc) in order to sidestep a graphics glitch bug. However, that bug was fixed by Apple in 12.3.1 and since then we’ve not needed to apply GPU framebuffer patches.

Nevertheless, with patches applied are you seeing significantly better benchmarking results?

 

[gandem]

So some TB3 devices hot plug?

Some ARE working, but because the Envoy Express wasn't working, I assumed all my TB3 devices were not hot plugging. The UltraFine now hot plugs under Monterey. I'm not sure when this started, but that's another one that did not hot plug when I built the system. TS3+ dock and the UltraFine monitor do hot plug. Anything I hot plug with the Apple TB3/2 adapter, however, does not hot plug under Monterey or Big Sur. I also tested the Apple Gigabit adapter under Big Sur, and it does not hot plug under 11.6.5 or 11.6.6. My ProArt TB firmware is still showing 31.49 under thunderbolt bus in Big Sur.
Funny, the one device I really want hot plug for (envoy express) is the one that won't work.

 

[dehjomz]

Some ARE working, but because the Envoy Express wasn't working, I assumed all my TB3 devices were not hot plugging. The UltraFine now hot plugs under Monterey. I'm not sure when this started, but that's another one that did not hot plug when I built the system. TS3+ dock and the UltraFine monitor do hot plug. Anything I hot plug with the Apple TB3/2 adapter, however, does not hot plug under Monterey or Big Sur. I also tested the Apple Gigabit adapter under Big Sur, and it does not hot plug under 11.6.5 or 11.6.6. My ProArt TB firmware is still showing 31.49 under thunderbolt bus in Big Sur.
Funny, the one device I really want hot plug for (envoy express) is the one that won't work.

It might be the controller chip inside of the envoy express. Remember what Intel refers to as “Thunderbolt 3” is actually a family of controllers, some have Alpine Ridge and some have Titan Ridge and there are other ridges (like tahini ridge) as well.

With Alpine Ridge there are various variants: jhl6240, jhl6340, and jhl6540. Titan Ridge uses jhl7540 for example.

If the envoy express is not hot plugging it is possible that it is using jhl6240. And if it is, then it is a hardware issue with Maple Ridge silicon with NVM 26.0 and above and the jhl6240 controller.

I have two Thunderbolt to 10Gbps Ethernet adapters, one from cable matters (which uses jhl6240) and another from Caldigit (which uses jhl6340 I believe). The cable matters one doesn’t hot plug on Maple Ridge but the Caldigit one does. This is unfortunate as Intel doesn’t talk about this, but it is a reality. I should add that the cable matters one hot plugs just fine with my M1 Max Mac and on a Titan Ridge host (z490). So the issue is Maple Ridge silicon.

I reported this to intel last year then they pointed me to the OEMs so I even contacted gigabyte and cable matters. And nothing happened. So I gave up and ensured that any future “thunderbolt 3” device I buy that I need to use with maple ridge is jhl6340 or greater. I suggest you do the same. Also, hotplugging on maple ridge was broken in macOS 12.2 and 12.3.x but fixed in 12.4 and above.

An alternative to the envoy express could be a nvme enclosure from Acasis, for example which uses Titan ridge, and hotplugs just fine on my z690 formula. You would expect to not have to deal with these problems and for thunderbolt devices to interoperate. But the reality is thunderbolt is sometimes a headache.

 

[gandem]

It might be the controller chip inside of the envoy express. Remember what Intel refers to as “Thunderbolt 3” is actually a family of controllers, some have Alpine Ridge and some have Titan Ridge and there are other ridges (like tahini ridge) as well.

With Alpine Ridge there are various variants: jhl6240, jhl6340, and jhl6540. Titan Ridge uses jhl7540 for example.

If the envoy express is not hot plugging it is possible that it is using jhl6240. And if it is, then it is a hardware issue with Maple Ridge silicon with NVM 26.0 and above and the jhl6240 controller.

I have two Thunderbolt to 10Gbps Ethernet adapters, one from cable matters (which uses jhl6240) and another from Caldigit (which uses jhl6340 I believe). The cable matters one doesn’t hot plug on Maple Ridge but the Caldigit one does. This is unfortunate as Intel doesn’t talk about this, but it is a reality. I should add that the cable matters one hot plugs just fine with my M1 Max Mac and on a Titan Ridge host (z490). So the issue is Maple Ridge silicon.

I reported this to intel last year then they pointed me to the OEMs so I even contacted gigabyte and cable matters. And nothing happened. So I gave up and ensured that any future “thunderbolt 3” device I buy that I need to use with maple ridge is jhl6340 or greater. I suggest you do the same. Also, hotplugging on maple ridge was broken in macOS 12.2 and 12.3.x but fixed in 12.4 and above.

An alternative to the envoy express could be a nvme enclosure from Acasis, for example which uses Titan ridge, and hotplugs just fine on my z690 formula. You would expect to not have to deal with these problems and for thunderbolt devices to interoperate. But the reality is thunderbolt is sometimes a headache.

Great info. Yes, your account of the macOS versions does match my recollection. I believe I built with 12.1, but quickly updated to 12.2 as it was released soon after. Then I had so many problems with my original board... it was a real mess! I think you're right, the TB controller issues you point are probably playing a role with the Envoy Express.

 

[CaseySJ]

Came across this article earlier this morning. It’s a PCIe card from Sonnet that is designed for Macs. Features:

• 10Gbit Ethernet port
• 2 USB Type C 10Gbps ports
• 2 internal M.2 NVMe slots
• US $399

Can be installed internally on in Thunderbolt external chassis.

Sonnet introduces McFiver PCIe card with 10-gig ethernet, USB-C, SSD slots | AppleInsider

The new Sonnet McFiver brings internal SSD storage, 10 Gigabit Ethernet, 10Gbps USB-C, and two SSD slots for high-speed storage in a single PCIe card for the Mac Pro or any Mac with an PCI-E enclosure.

appleinsider.com

UPDATE: It requires a PCIe slot with 8 lanes (x8), which implies minimal impact to throughput with all 5 ports and slots connected. Manufacturer's overview.