USB header issue (USB3.0, USB2.0)

[asheenlevrai]

Hi

In posts #665 and #681 of the Hackintool thread I mentioned that I have issues with USB3.0 ports that don't work with USB2.0 devices (although they work fine, at full speed, with USB3.0 devices).

In both cases, these are USB ports on the front of the case (Cooltek X5, different units, bought 18 months apart).

(The central USB2.0 port works OK)

Notice how weird it is that one of the USB3.0 ports is labelled as USB3.0 while the USB2.0 port and the other USB3.0 port are both only labelled as USB. Has anyone ever heard of USB3.0 ports that would not be compatible with USB2.0? Or maybe this is just cheap design...

Of course there was zero documentation provided with the cases... nor online...

I connected the USB3.0 header to the USB3.0 connector on the Mobo while I left the pigtail USB2.0 header disconnected.
I intuitively thought this was the right thing to do back then, since I assumed the following:
- USB3.0 is backward compatible with USB2.0
- if both headers needed to be connected the manufacturer would have used separate cables since USB3.0 connectors on some Mobos are nowhere near USB2.0 connectors.
- This post seemed to indicate that connecting both could lead to electrical problems and I didn't want to fry anything

I have the same issue (USB2.0 not working on these USB3.0 ports) on Windows 10 and macOS (mojave). Except when I try to setup the ports with hackingtool (USBinjectAll present, -uia_exclude_ss boot flag present), then they work with USB2.0 devices (so they can work?!?).

I'm wondering if this is a hardware issue (since both headers come from the same model of case) or if I should plug that USB2.0 header somewhere (this is physically possible on my z370-a/z390-a). I don't want to burn the hardware for the sake of this test, though. So I wonder if anyone knows exactly what the risk is here.

Thank you very much in advance for your help or advice.

best,
-a-

PS: I know the USB3.0 conector on the Mobo is fine since I tested it with a different USB3.0 header (2x USB3.0, no USB2.0 ports) and both USB3.0 ports worked with USB2.0 devices and USB3.0 devices.

 

[asheenlevrai]

anyone?

 

[UtterDisbelief]

Hello.

Well it's difficult getting to the bottom of this problem, after reading those two previous posts you made in the Hackintool thread. You've done so much and tried so much etc.

Coming new to this I would observe a few things which might help illuminate:

1) My own case features two USB front ports. They connect with a standard 20-pin connector to the motherboard. One of these ports is USB 3.0 but the other is USB 2.0 only, apparently intentionally. I'm unsure why a manufacturer would do this, but there you go and clearly it's not unique.

2) I imagine the ports work the same under Windows exactly because of the above. This issue is physical connections rather than configuration.

By the way, my guess is that the pig-tail is EITHER an alternative connector for motherboards that don't have a 30-pin header, in which case don't connect both OR the connector for your third front-panel port. You could check where the cabling for that third port goes.

3)

...setup the ports with hackingtool (USBinjectAll present, -uia_exclude_ss boot flag present), then they work with USB2.0 devices (so they can work?!?) ...

Yes, this UIA command excludes all your USB 3.0 ports leaving only the HS or USB 2.0 ports to take their quota of the 15 available. Hence they are all shown and working.

UIA commands are favoured over the Port-Limit Removal Patch these days, but for clarity of understanding, especially in the initial configuration stages, I think the PLRP is still a very useful tool.

 

[PeacefulDreams]

If you're experiencing the same thing in Windows I would suggest a hardware issue, but then again, if it works with USBInjectAll that's simply strange and points more towards software.. You could try ordering a cheap USB 3.0 PCIe card or 5.25" USB 3.0 front panel on a site like AliExpress to see if that makes a difference. If it does, you could use that one instead.

 

[asheenlevrai]

1) My own case features two USB front ports. They connect with a standard 30-pin connector to the motherboard. One of these ports is USB 3.0 but the other is USB 2.0 only, apparently intentionally. I'm unsure why a manufacturer would do this, but there you go and clearly it's not unique.

What color are the ports on your front panel?
As you can see on the pics I posted, I have 2 blue ports that work as USB3.0 (but not as USB2.0 for some reason, except when, -uia_exclude_ss is ON) and I have 1 black port that work as USB2.0 (I never tried to make it work as an USB3.0 port but I guess it wouldn't make any sense).

By the way, my guess is that the pig-tail is EITHER an alternative connector for motherboards that don't have a 30-pin header, in which case don't connect both OR the connector for your third front-panel port. You could check where the cabling for that third port goes.

I check the cabling but its a bit difficult to see. I think it's all connected to a board...
I contacted the manufacturer and they are sending me new front panels as replacement. I still need to know how to connect them to the motherboard.

 

[asheenlevrai]

If you're experiencing the same thing in Windows I would suggest a hardware issue, but then again, if it works with USBInjectAll that's simply strange and points more towards software.. You could try ordering a cheap USB 3.0 PCIe card or 5.25" USB 3.0 front panel on a site like AliExpress to see if that makes a difference. If it does, you could use that one instead.

Thanks but I don't actually need more ports or anything.
With the current buggy situation, I have a front panel with 1x USB2.0 port (that accepts USB3.0 drives but at 2.0 speed, as expected) and 2x USB3.0 only (as in "won't mount USB2.0 drives").
I could just add a warning note with tape on those ports, but I would rather fix this thing to avoid this option...

 

[UtterDisbelief]

What color are the ports on your front panel?
As you can see on the pics I posted, I have 2 blue ports that work as USB3.0 (but not as USB2.0 for some reason, except when, -uia_exclude_ss is ON) and I have 1 black port that work as USB2.0 (I never tried to make it work as an USB3.0 port but I guess it wouldn't make any sense).


I check the cabling but its a bit difficult to see. I think it's all connected to a board...
I contacted the manufacturer and they are sending me new front panels as replacement. I still need to know how to connect them to the motherboard.

Your USB3 ports will not recognise USB2 devices if there are no HS** configured for them. Clearly USB3 is taking precedence in the 15 limit. Excluding SS with the -uia command makes room for them and lets the USB2 be seen.

You are correct - a black USB2 port will never work as USB3 because it has less contacts in it, but should still recognise devices at USB2 speeds.

My own case has just 1x blue USB3 and 1x black USB front panel port both connected via the 20-pin header.

 

[asheenlevrai]

By the way, my guess is that the pig-tail is EITHER an alternative connector for motherboards that don't have a 30-pin header, in which case don't connect both OR the connector for your third front-panel port. You could check where the cabling for that third port goes.

I double checked. The frontal USB2.0 port has its own USB2.0 header, on a separate cable. The USB3.0 header with the USB2.0 pigtail is for the 2 UDB3.0 ports only.

As I mentioned previously, the manufacturer of the case sent me replacement front pannels. These came with USB3.0 header without the USB2.0 pigtail and this time the USB3.0 ports work as expected (detect both USB3.0 devices and USB2.0 devices).

So I'm left with 2 possibilities:
1) The USB3.0 header with the 2.0 pigtail is defective (actually I had 3 of them with the same issue). And it's probably a manufacturing or a conceptual discrepencie.
2) The USB3.0 header is supposed to have its usb2.0 pigtail also connected to the mainboard somehow. However I won't take the risk to fry any hardware in order to run that test. Especially since I got replacement front panels now.

Anyways, if anyone knows the final answer to this question, it might be useful to others who may face the same issue in the future.

Best,
-a-

 

[asheenlevrai]

My own case has just 1x blue USB3 and 1x black USB front panel port both connected via the 20-pin header.

AFAIU now, these USB3.0 20 pin headers (19 pin, actually) can support up to 2 USB3.0 ports (also working as USB2.0 ports). I guess it's up to the manufacturer then to replace one of the USB3.0 ports with an USB2.0 (only) port.