M1/M2 Mac Mini/iMac Speed

[pastrychef]

First of all, I'm talking about pre-ARM Macs... hence why I am inquiring about M1/M2's.

Secondly, I used Macs for so long I never even looked back at Windows PC's after switching. The only reason I re-familiarized myself with Windows is when Boot Camp became available and I did an install only to see changes MS had made to Windows since my leaving the platform.

Between that and recently converting PC's to Hackintoshes I never knew how slow my Macs actually were. I mean I knew, but I never knew just how drastic the performance issues were... and for whatever reason, it was drastic.

As far as bashing or hating on Apple, that wasn't the reason for this thread. For years they sold mediocre quality RAM and people who were able simply had the minimum installed at purchase and then bought their own memory at radically reduced prices compared to Apple's later on... and received much better quality memory at that. And on that note Apple's memory prices are still high compared to other memory prices, and again, I don't like the idea of not [at least] being able to upgrade my own memory.

When I started gaming again a few years back is when I built several PC's, and I forgot how convenient and cheaper it was compared to Macs... and the hardware choices, well, that issue needs no explanation.

Again... I just don't like the route Apple is taking regarding hardware... lack of upgradeability choices, and a lot of issues PC users do not have to deal with. One may ask, "Why don't you just go back to Windows?" Not that easy... I dislike Windows and absolutely love the Mac OS, but I've come to really dislike Apple's hardware direction as of late. And even if I were satisfied with some aspects of Apple's direction I still say Apple is way overpriced. One only need YouTube some hardcore Apple/Mac user's opinions to see I am not alone in my opinion of Apple's, in some instances, ridiculous prices.

To top it all off, I don't really think Apple truly cares about their Mac base any longer, or rather, they do not care as much as they used to. Remember... Apple used to be a computer company first-and-foremost to begin with. Now it would seem ONLY profit matter to Apple. iPhones put Apple over the top as a corporation. Hey, I'm all for profit... I am not one of these "Corporations are greedy, dude" people in the least. But overpricing is yet another issue.

Finally, all of this I say comes down to the fact my opinions mean about as much as one grain of sand on the entire world's seashores, but it is my opinion nevertheless, for what's it's worth.

I'm only trying to figure out which direction to take in the future. My comps are aging, PCs and Macs, and I must make some serious decisions in the near future. I am very happy with my aging Hackintosh... there is absolutely nothing slow about it even though it's quite a few generations behind newer builds.

I also must consider all of the software I will eventually have to replace. I am a musician (for a living until a few years back... I don't travel as much for my livelihood any longer). Although Logic Pro is extremely reasonable, price wise, in regards to DAW software. Then there is the graphic design software and businesas software, etc..........

So any opinions/advice I receive from current experienced "Apple Silicon" Mac owners is truly appreciated... hence the main reason for this thread.

I do have one remaining question... if the "Apple Silicon" Macs are so great for some, why are you/they still building Hackintoshes and hanging out in Hackintosh forums? Any further info on M1/M2 Macs is certainly welcomed...opinion, or fact!

Thanks for the replies, all!

Assuming you are talking about some of the last Intel Macs Apple sold, there's no reason why they would boot slower than comparable PC hardware.

I completely understand not wanting to go to Windows. I never even purchased a "PC" before hackingtoshing. I had one hand-me-down HP laptop that I played with briefly but never really used. I can't stand Windows. It has always given me problems every time I tried to use it.

I don't know if the "quality" of RAM that Apple used/uses is of mediocre quality. I've never seen anything that implied that. Do they gouge on RAM pricing? Absolutely. No question about it. This was something that was happening even when Steve Jobs was at the helm.

Nobody likes to be gouged, but, if you want to remain on macOS, there are no other choices.

If Apple didn't "care" about Macs anymore, they would never have bothered to develop Apple Silicon SoCs.

Of course, profit is important to Apple. They are a publicly traded, for-profit company, not a charity. Companies will charge as much for their products as consumers are willing to pay. This is true for any company and any product. If McDonald's started charging $100 for a Big Mac, will people still buy them? What will happen? Yup, they will lower the price.

iPhones having a higher priority within Apple is logical. They sell more iPhones than any other product. It generates more revenue and profits than any other division. Why wouldn't it have the highest priority within the company?

Why are people still investing in new hackintosh builds today? I have no idea. It makes no sense to me. Possibilities:

• It's a hobby they enjoy.
• They've never actually tried an Apple Silicon Mac.
• Reluctance to give up on the ability to boot in to Windows.
• They have legacy software that runs better on X86 hardware.

IMO, if macOS is your primary OS, it's foolish to invest in a new hackintosh build. macOS support for X86 is ending. Apple Silicon only features and software are already starting to appear. I started giving away a lot of my hackintosh hardware once Apple Silicon was announced. I still have two HP minis but one is almost always booted in to Batocera (Linux) and the other acts as a server running Dockers in macOS Ventura.

 

[craighazan]

I love my M1 MBA and have done for the past two years Ive owned it, but it hasn't stopped me from building hacks!, 5 since owning the only M series wedge MacBook Air. The SSD thing that people bring up could be to do with heat too, I imagine a M2 would produce more heat if it used the faster SSD found in the M1.

 

[pastrychef]

I love my M1 MBA and have done for the past two years Ive owned it, but it hasn't stopped me from building hacks!, 5 in the past two years. The SSD thing that people bring up could be to do with heat too, I imagine a M2 would produce more heat if it used the faster SSD found in the M1.

On SSDs, most of the heat comes from the controller, not the actual NAND chips. On Apple Silicon Macs, the SSD controller is part of the Apple Silicon SoC itself.

 

[craighazan]

Its a similar situation with a Ryzen APU, the 4700G and 5700G are both 8 core, 16 thread, both have 8 core iGPU, But the newer more expensive 5700G clocks its iGPU at 2000 MHz, where as the older cheaper 4700G iGPU comes in at 2100 MHz. Ok, it's just 100 MHz difference and I doubt I could discern a difference between the two. It could speak to supply chain issues and tech having to reign back ambitions for their products.

 

[Middleman]

With Apple just weeks away from bankruptcy back in 1997, Bill Gates loaned Apple millions of dollars to stay in business. It was 26 years ago to this day.

On August 6, 1997, Microsoft's Bill Gates invested $150 million in Apple which was on the brink of bankruptcy. Following the deal, Steve Jobs told Gates, “Bill, thank you. The world’s a better place.” TIME magazine.

I still remember this bit of news. I was studying in uni at the time when this very cover was on the newsstands near my local campus in the UK. It was big if not shocking to the computing world. Amazon was in its 4th year then; Netscape, Compuserve and AOL were the biggest players at the time and webdesign was all the rage. With slow and expensive machines that only enthusiasts bought (vs PCs who historically always had good price & performance), Apple however was in serious trouble. Windows 95 had just been launched 2 years earlier and offered for the first time, a serious and viable platform against Macs because of USB plug and play and great software.

Against this backdrop however, I was (already) an Apple user back then. I had a Newton tablet at the time which was backlit which came with a mini keyboard and digital pen and I’d used that for my study notes at uni. It was a great little machine. I figured that if Apple had the expertise to develop their tablet a bit further they could perhaps move computing to the next level.

 

[D.Houch]

It's hard to continuously pump out new, revolutionary products. I can't think of any company other than Apple that has done it so many times.

Apple II.
Mac.
iPod.
iPhone.
Apple Watch.

It remains to be seen how "successful" the Vision Pro will be. Technologically, I feel it's already disrupting the category.

I don't know if anyone will be able to come up with something nearly as successful as the iPhone. What other device does everyone need to have on them 24/7? People can be without their desktops or laptops for a while. People can be away from their cars. But if they are away from their smartphones for more than a few minutes, panic sets in. Smartphones have become so integral to our lives. We rely on them for everything from staying in touch with friends/family to counting how many steps we've taken today to paying for the bottle of water after our workout.

Macs and iPhones are mature products. Still, Apple managed to introduce true innovation to the Macs in the form of Apple Silicon nearly 40 years after the first Mac was introduced. A true bean counter would probably not have spent on the R&D. They could've easily sat on their laurels and continued to "milk the cow" using Intel CPUs, but Tim Cook didn't. Which other company has come up with new processors that are competitive to Intel or AMD on a consumer level in the last few years?

From a business perspective, I don't think Apple "needs" to have anymore new revolutionary products. They can remain extremely successful by continually refining and improving their existing devices. Consumers need to update all these devices every so often as technology and standards evolve and improve and batteries degrade. Think about the first few generations of iPhones. They are pretty useless now that all the major cell carriers have sunsetted 3G service. For "growth" they have their Services business.

Again, I don't like the direction they're going by soldering components on mobos and assorted hardware decisions such as that, and I think it will hurt them in the long run. Maybe not with the average consumer, but it very well may with professionals. Then again, I have been known to be wrong every now and again.

And again, maybe I'm being too hard on Apple... remembering how first Scully, then Gil Amelio and co.'s proprietary moves in the 90s almost killed them as a company. Regardless, I don't want the Mac OS to go away.

 

[pastrychef]

Again, I don't like the direction they're going by soldering components on mobos and assorted hardware decisions such as that, and I think it will hurt them in the long run. Maybe not with the average consumer, but it very well may with professionals. Then again, I have been known to be wrong every now and again.

And again, maybe I'm being too hard on Apple... remembering how first Scully, then Gil Amelio and co.'s proprietary moves in the 90s almost killed them as a company. Regardless, I don't want the Mac OS to go away.

A lot of people don't like that SSD and RAM are soldered to the main logic board. But it's unlikely that Apple will change that because it has not affected sales at all. In fact, Mac sales have increased. So, there's absolutely no incentive for Apple to make any changes.

If the consumers keep buying, why would Apple change?

Source:https://www.businessofapps.com/data/apple-statistics/


Apple has always had their share of proprietary standards regardless of who was CEO. It wasn't like Macs used industry standard M.2 slots for SSDs or Wi-Fi when Steve Jobs was CEO. Under Steve Jobs, Apple deliberately created proprietary connectors for their SSD and Wi-Fi/Bluetooth cards when they could've easily just used industry standard connectors. That's why adaptors such as the following exists.




You're going to have to decide what's more important to you, socketed RAM and SSD or macOS. Those are the only choices available.

If you are absolutely hellbent on upgrading RAM and SSD, it's technically not impossible... Just not easy...

Engineers Sneakily Upgrade Apple M1 Mac Mini With More Storage, RAM

You can apparently upgrade an M1 Mac, but with more than a few catches.

www.tomshardware.com