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General NVMe Drive Problems (Fatal)

My point isn't that Apple is doing anything wrong — far from it. My point is that hackintosh community has to face that a commodities NVMe SSD cannot be assumed to agreeable with macOS because Apple may have its own idea of what a feature such as Trim actually does baked into the firmware for the drives it sources.

I say this because I see there's a common POV here that hackintosh's are just specially enabled PCs, but from a hack-user's practical point of view that's certainly changed in the last couple years, and from Apple's POV has never been true.

So I'm saying something about hackintosh user expectations, which is the whole reason for starting this thread.

In the early days of NVMe SSDs, macOS only supported 4K block size, and it was a gift when Apple added support for 512 byte block size support. So, there has been times when Apple just randomly did things that benefited hackintosh users.
 
All of this discussion is anecdotal, as is this: I have the Samsung EVO 970 as my boot. I installed 12.1 yesterday. My cold boot time ("cold" = machine is OFF) to the finder desktop used to be 2:12.
Now it's 2:45.
I don't really consider that "fatal" or worth spending the $$ and energy to replace the drive.

Just adding a data point; YMMV.

I lost 2 new Sabrent PCI4 drives to Big Sur, total failure, all data lost, brand new drives. They seemed to be fine at first, then collapsed. Why?

That's where the (Fatal) in the thread title comes from.
 
The percentage of Apple designed parts are a fraction of the standard everyday chips contained that everybody else uses for the same purpose as Apple does.
True, but it just takes an Apple-specific component to break the chain. In this case, the flash chips are probably standard, but their controller may well be an Apple-designed part, operating differently from the controllers used by other SSDs.
Apple provides drivers for their own controller and does not care supporting "industry-standard" controllers if we are not supposed to install these in real Macs.

It's past time to let go of quaint idea that Macs are merely luxury PCs sourced from same bins.
I'd say it another way: It's time to let go of the quaint idea that we can assemble a set of standard PC components and get a Mac.
 
I think the thread has just about been covered by now. Samsung NVME SSDs have a Trim conflict with MacOS Monterey. This can be mitigated by disabling macOS's own TRIM function. But the most reliable fix of all is to 'upgrade' your SSD to another brand like WD when you upgrade to Monterey. I always buy new SSDs these days as they are so cheap if you steer clear of the big ones. (We should keep data drives separate anyway). My own Monterey boot drive is a new 120GB SSD and my data drive a separate 500GB.

Simples.

(Happy to be corrected as I don't own any Samsung SSDs... )

:)
 
Samsung NVME SSDs have a Trim conflict with MacOS Monterey. This can be mitigated by disabling macOS's own TRIM function. But the most reliable fix of all is to 'upgrade' your SSD to another brand like WD when you upgrade to Monterey.
That's the clearest and most concise description of what people really need to know right now. Nice job.
 
The second best fix is to set the TRIM timeout to the maximal value, let it complete and live with the increased boot time. Skipping TRIM is attractive in the short term, but may cause the drive to fail—as reported by some in this thread.
 
If you don't like the way they make their Macs, no one is forcing you to buy one.

Yeah. Isn't that the whole point of Hackintosh?
 
As I mentioned in a recent post on this thread, I updated firmware on a Samsung 980 Pro to the latest, released within about the last month or so, and my a Monterey boot stalls for several minutes. The console output is interrupted mid line on a message unrelated to Trim, but for the duration of the stall, the board I/O LED flashes with heavy continuous activity.

From this I want to speculate from others' boot console output that Monterey issues Trim for all partition free space and that Samsung firmware update has changed Trim command semantics in a way such that what was either a very quick operation, internal background operation — or no operation! — is now synchronous WRT to the storage driver.

For example, maybe...
- ...Trim went from being advisory, something the drive controller skipped if it was busy — or if the device slippery just wanted to ignore it — to mandatory?
- ...there's an evolving interpretation that Trim blocks must be in some specific state of hygiene (e.g., zero) when the Trim command completes, and to achieve this the drive must block until the literal garbage collection gets done?
- ...Apple NVMe devices have special semantics that Monterey support depends upon, such as non-blocking Trim, and Apple moved Trim from a chore that was previously limited to SW updates or fsck to a routine boot activity, keeping in mind that Mac is going the way of iPhone as a device with a power envelope that allows expectation that the user will rarely restart it, and only do so during an activity which is expected to take a long time, such as a SW update.
... Etc.

I don't know if any of this is true but I suggest it as a way to think about the situation.

My thoughts keep returning to problems with Sabrent Rocket 4 deaths: These happened under Big Sur. Maybe Big Sur was mixing Trim with other I/O on the fly and there's a pathological interaction on Phison E15 rev x.y.z?

Other though is how does Trim operating on Flash pages interact with LBA block-level data structures on the drive. Is the OS supposed to know not to Trim less than flash-page units? What does macOS think it's safe to Trim and how does that relate to the drive layout?

...Etc, etc.

These thoughts suggest the challenges that will make hackintosh problematic going forward. What we should note is that you can't approach overcoming such challenges from a point of view of "know to work" list, because the set of what is "known to work" intersects with "that which has not failed -yet-"

In the classic 90's Stephen Frears movie High Fidelity, young John Cusack asks an even younger Jack Black: "If I told you I hadn't seen the sequel to Evil Dead 'yet', would you think that I fully intended to see the movie?" He's wondering out loud because his newly estranged girlfriend just retorted to his query as to whether she sleeping with other guys with a blithe 'not yet'. In the movie, Cusack's character has wild fantasies about what his ex-GF is doing that culminate in a showdown with a patchouli-scented free-love guru and a old-school Bell telephone.
My speculations about Trim are like this movie character.

Where we can keep an eye out is for insights about the state of Trim in the industry and trends, and instrumentation that let's us see a bit more about what's happening under the covers of macOS.
 
I have Netac NVMe which wouldn't let my MacOS boot. But, once I removed nvmefix.kext, the PC booted just fine, and I could even install on the NVMe itself.
 
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