2019 Mac Pro is Now Available at Apple.com

[Sofronis]

Apple obviously sees it selling to video and audio professionals that use Final Cut Pro X and Logic Pro X. Those are never going to be ported to Windows or Linux.

There are very capable (if not better) alternatives to Final Cut Pro/Logic Pro on Windows and since we are talking about professional work on a workstation, if someone were to tell me that I would double (or more) my production speed by moving to Adobe Premiere with a 64-core EPYC cpu (and at a lower cost at that), I would weather the inconvenience of familiarizing myself with Adobe Premiere for a few days/weeks.

Of course it's entirely possible that I underestimate how big this inconvenience really is. I shudder to the thought of using Windows every day, but again this would be a professional workstation for specialized work.

Many have been waiting so long for this that they really can't afford to wait any longer to upgrade from whatever older Mac Pro they've kept going all these years.

I think that if a video/audio professional still uses the 2013 trashcan Mac Pro (or even earlier), I'd say that for him/her, performance is more of an added bonus, on top of macOS, than a priority.

A mega AMD CPU may be more powerful on paper but will it be quiet enough, reliable enough ... and cool enough?

It is.
Right now, in server grade CPUs, AMD absolutely dominates performance, performance/watt and performance/$. Intel is nowhere close.

And these benchmarks are for the mid-range 32-core Threadripper with its quad channel memory.

Look at how much video render times are reduced with a 28 core Xeon compared to a 9900K or a 32 core Threadripper CPU. For busy pros they're going to try and get as much done in the least amount of time possible.

This is the old Threadripper (2990WX). There is a dramatic difference in performance (2.7x faster) between the old and new (3970X) under Premiere Pro, which brings the new 32-core pretty much on par with the W-3175X under Premiere Pro. And don't forget that this is just(?) the 32-core.

The 28-core that Apple uses (W-3275M) retails for $7,453 and is nowhere near in performance, performance/watt, performance/$ compared to what AMD has to offer. The only exception is AVX512 workloads which are few and far between and usually pretty specialized (scientific computations, simulations, etc).

 

[trs96]

Of course it's entirely possible that I underestimate how big this inconvenience really is. I shudder to the thought of using Windows every day, but again this would be a professional workstation for specialized work.

Hopefully Apple will switch to AMD CPUs sometime in the 2020s but that remains to be seen. Could that 64 core EPYC CPU be adequately cooled in the 2019 MP chassis ? Could they still keep it quiet ? Those are important questions to ask.

 

[Sofronis]

Hopefully Apple will switch to AMD CPUs sometime in the 2020s but that remains to be seen. Could that 64 core EPYC CPU be adequately cooled in the 2019 MP chassis ? Could they still keep it quiet ? Those are important questions to ask.

The 64-core EPYC 7742 has a TDP of 225W
The 28-core Xeon W-3275M has a TDP of 205W

I don't think cooling would be a problem, but even if Apple had chosen a 64-core EPYC for the Mac Pro, my tentative argument still stands.

Apple created an ultra premium workstation that pretty much only big production studios can afford. But aren't those big production studios better served or already being served by higher performance, and much more flexible, custom Windows/Linux workstations?

I guess if it lingers un-updated for the next couple of years, we would know the answer.

 

[UtterDisbelief]

The 64-core EPYC 7742 has a TDP of 225W
The 28-core Xeon W-3275M has a TDP of 205W

I don't think cooling would be a problem, but even if Apple had chosen a 64-core EPYC for the Mac Pro, my tentative argument still stands.

Apple created an ultra premium workstation that pretty much only big production studios can afford. But aren't those big production studios better served or already being served by higher performance, and much more flexible, custom Windows/Linux workstations?

I guess if it lingers un-updated for the next couple of years, we would know the answer.

Clearly you have very relevant experience in this field, so I guess the conclusion is the new Mac Pro should flop.

Time will tell I suppose, but I would like to see another computer in the same market segment, of any CPU, that is so utterly well designed and built.

Some people buy Rolex, some Timex.

 

[jaymonkey]

I don't understand how Apple can charge $7000.00 for the 28 core CPU (W-3175X I assume) upgrade.
Scan Computers in the UK are selling the same CPU for £2900.00 + Tax (approx $3807.00 US)

Intel 28 Core Xeon W-3175X Pro Creator Workstation CPU/Processor

Buy from Scan - Intel Xeon W-3175X, S 3647, Skylake-SP, 28 Cores, 56 Threads, 3.1GHz, 3.8GHz Turbo, 38.5MB Cache, 255W, Retail

www.scan.co.uk

So how can Apple justify charging almost twice as much for the same component ?
Yes we all know about the Apple TAX but that is taking the Pi$$ ...

Cheers
Jay

 

[Feartech]

I don't understand how Apple can charge $7000.00 for the 28 core CPU (W-3175X I assume) upgrade.
Scan Computers in the UK are selling the same CPU for £2900.00 + Tax (approx $3807.00 US)

Intel 28 Core Xeon W-3175X Pro Creator Workstation CPU/Processor

Buy from Scan - Intel Xeon W-3175X, S 3647, Skylake-SP, 28 Cores, 56 Threads, 3.1GHz, 3.8GHz Turbo, 38.5MB Cache, 255W, Retail

www.scan.co.uk

So how can Apple justify charging almost twice as much for the same component ?
Yes we all know about the Apple TAX but that is taking the Pi$$ ...

Cheers
Jay

because the processors from scan hasn't had an Apple chap touch it

 

[Sofronis]

I don't understand how Apple can charge $7000.00 for the 28 core CPU (W-3175X I assume) upgrade.
Scan Computers in the UK are selling the same CPU for £2900.00 + Tax (approx $3807.00 US)

So how can Apple justify charging almost twice as much for the same component ?
Yes we all know about the Apple TAX but that is taking the Pi$$ ...

Although almost identical, they are not the exact same CPU and Apple isn't to blame here, Intel is.

1. W-3175X
   • MSRP of $2,999
   • unlocked
   • 255W TDP
   • max 512 GiB of RAM
   • 48 PCIe 3.0 lanes
   • made for the X599 HEDT platform
2. W-3275
   • MSRP $4,449
   • locked
   • 205W TDP (and lower clocks)
   • max 1 TiB of RAM
   • 64 PCIe 3.0 lanes
   • some extra instructions and hardware vulnerability mitigations
3. W-3275M
   • MSRP $7,453
   • max 2 TiB of RAM
   • otherwise identical to W-3275
4. Xeon Platinum 8280M
   • MSRP $13,012
   • 48 PCIe 3.0 lanes
   • Supports up to 8-way multi socket
   • otherwise more or less the same as W-3275M

Apple uses #3 and only charges a relatively small premium (~$300) for the upgrade.

Same silicon, drastically different price tags. This is how Intel makes record profits, quarter after quarter, and this is the market that AMD makes inroads in and Intel is desperate to protect.

 

[D-One]

Any GPU that works in a Hackintosh should work in the new Mac Pro. You can use the 8-pin power cables that Apple sells, to supply it with power.
View attachment 440038

The case is like a Swiss cheese with three big fans pushing in cool air, plus the CPU is directly fed with air from outside, so it should be fine.

Oh so it's confirmed we can use any compatible GPU? Cool.
Considering how much Apple often values silence over performance I am a bit skeptical the intake fans can be enough to exhaust the heat out for some types of GPU coolers not really designed to be in a case like this, especially since the back part only has vent holes in the upper back part of the case. I have 3 exhaust fans on my hack and it gets warm in there under prolonged heavy GPU usage (sapphire vega64) which is not an issue because the CPU itself is water-cooled.


On that picture... The air intake GPU fan is completely chocked by that MPX thing below it, I guess we can just remove it if we aren't using any MPX module below it, but what if we are?
In a reference card like the one on your pic it might not matter but for non-blower-style, it could be an issue since it will dump hot air into the case especially if there are 2 GPUS. I am just assuming tho, could be totally wrong of course...
I guess time will tell once people start sharing their experiences.

This is the Infinity Fabric Link connector that allows the GPUs to communicate with each other much faster than what the PCIe bus allows. This is a standard feature for AMD's Radeon Instinct professional GPUs, which is what these Pro Vega II MPX modules are.

Oh, I see, sort of like NVIDIA's NVLink I guess, that's what I was assuming but wasn't sure. Thanks!
But... Normal Vega's, XT's or a Radeon 7 doesn't have that link thingy... Right? Wouldnt that mean no dual GPU support for regular GPU's?
PS. Sorry to bombard you with questions.

I think Apple missed a good chance here to use EPYC cpus

Was thinking the exact same thing.

There are very capable (if not better) alternatives to Final Cut Pro/Logic Pro on Windows and since we are talking about professional work on a workstation, if someone were to tell me that I would double (or more) my production speed by moving to Adobe Premiere with a 64-core EPYC cpu (and at a lower cost at that), I would weather the inconvenience of familiarizing myself with Adobe Premiere for a few days/weeks.

Those that work for a company often can't afford to choose wich software to use tho, I feel bad for those people lol..

 

[eiriasemrys]

Can you send me your address via PM? Also... when is yours arriving? I swear I am asking this for totally unrelated purposes

Is there an alternative to the 1k stand out already? Or are you planning on having it lean against the wall and pray it doesn't fall over?

Hum... Is it confirmed yet if we can just use any latest gen AMD GPU's with it or if Apple has something that forces people to buy their MPX modules? For dual configs, they seem to have something connecting the two modules.
There's also no exhaust fan so wouldn't a regular GPU dump a ton of heat inside the case that doesn't have where to go?? The MPX modules have separate chambers to isolate and direct the hot air from GPU's out of the case. Could get toasty in there with regular air-cooled GPUs without a separation chamber thingy, Hum.....

View attachment 439981

For the no stand option, planning to use the VESA mount and a monitor arm, better for my setup anyway.

 

[jaymonkey]

Although almost identical, they are not the exact same CPU and Apple isn't to blame here, Intel is. Apple uses #3 and only charges a relatively small premium (~$300) for the upgrade.

@Sofronis,

Many thanks for the explanation .... I wasn't aware of just how much Intel charge in order for their CPU's to be able to access 1TB & 2TB of RAM over the 512GB limit of the base chip .... seems a very easy way for them to make money.

Cheers
Jay