Asus Z690 ProArt Creator WiFi (Thunderbolt 4) + i7-12700K + AMD RX 6800 XT

[dehjomz]

Because I was keeping up with your own posts about issues with TB4, I actually never bought a TB4 hub or dock!

It's a bug in the OS for sure... so I put it to sleep, when it woke up the TB4 hub was down...as I mentioned. Then I put it to sleep again (without doing anything to the hub), and when it woke up again, the hub (and attached Thunderbolt storage) was back. So the OS is bugged out. But it's a Beta, so it's to be expected.

Regarding sleep related problems, seems that setting hibernatemode, standby, and autopoweroff off all to 0 resolved some lingering sleep-related issues, even in Monterey. (Sometimes the Z690 system would hang just before it went to sleep; the USB/Thunderbolt bus was down, but the PSU fans, etc., were still on, necessitating a hard reset).

 

[CaseySJ]

It's a bug in the OS for sure... so I put it to sleep, when it woke up the TB4 hub was down...as I mentioned. Then I put it to sleep again (without doing anything to the hub), and when it woke up again, the hub (and attached Thunderbolt storage) was back. So the OS is bugged out. But it's a Beta, so it's to be expected.
...

I tend to preserve previous macOS installations. For example, I still have a fully intact Big Sur SSD for both of my Z690 systems. On Asus Z590 and Z690 systems running Big Sur, Thunderbolt Bus gets enabled by default on the Maple Ridge controller.

Have you tested your Thunderbolt 4 hubs on Big Sur with Maple Ridge Thunderbolt Bus enabled? Is this something even worth trying?

 

[gandem]

I tend to preserve previous macOS installations. For example, I still have a fully intact Big Sur SSD for both of my Z690 systems. On Asus Z590 and Z690 systems running Big Sur, Thunderbolt Bus gets enabled by default on the Maple Ridge controller.

Have you tested your Thunderbolt 4 hubs on Big Sur with Maple Ridge Thunderbolt Bus enabled? Is this something even worth trying?

On my ProArt...
On Big Sur (11.6.8) TS4 works well. Sleeps/Wakes and is fully functional, except it does not show up in Thunderbolt Bus. Also, it will not work when directly plugged into the ProArt TB ports. Only works when plugged into UltraFine monitor.

On Monterey (12.5.1) TS4 continues to work well. Sleeps/Wakes and is fully functional. Again, will not work when plugged directly into ProArt TB ports.

On Ventura (Public Beta 4) The TS4 works exactly as it does in Monterey. Sleeps/Wakes fine for me. Again, not plugged directly into the ProArt.

 

[dehjomz]

I tend to preserve previous macOS installations. For example, I still have a fully intact Big Sur SSD for both of my Z690 systems. On Asus Z590 and Z690 systems running Big Sur, Thunderbolt Bus gets enabled by default on the Maple Ridge controller.

Have you tested your Thunderbolt 4 hubs on Big Sur with Maple Ridge Thunderbolt Bus enabled? Is this something even worth trying?

I definitely also preserve previous installations. My main OS is Monterey, but I'm testing Ventura using external storage (Thunderbolt). I always maintain a stable OS install, and a stable backup, and I test future beta versions using a spare NVMe. Things can and will go wrong at any time.

I've used Big Sur with Asus Z690 with Big Sur and while Thunderbolt bus was enabled, attached devices did not enumerate in the System Information pane (they did in the IORegistry). Sleep/wake worked well. I was using Big Sur for a few weeks because Monterey had a bug preventing TB hot plugging on Asus Z690, and then Apple also had issues with Radeon 6000 series cards losing performance. But, then Apple resolved the bugs with 12.4+, and I've been back on Monterey ever since. 12.5.1 works well.

With Ventura, the best compatibility so far is when I bypass the TB4 hub, and plug Thunderbolt devices (storage) directly into the motherboard. It seems to be an issue with power management states, and it's only an issue in Ventura. Windows, Linux, Monterey work work just fine. The very first Ventura beta was fine, but subsequent betas have introduced issues.

 

[dehjomz]

USB4® 80Gbps data performance is coming.

The USB-IF announced that they’re working on a major update to USB enable up to 80 Gbps of data performance over the USB Type-C cable and connector. Protocol updates are also being made to enable higher performance USB 3.2, DisplayPort and PCI Express (PCIe) data tunneling to best use the higher available bandwidth.

Curiously, I haven’t heard anything from Apple and/or Intel on this like whether they need to update their thunderbolt controllers (whether with new silicon or with a firmware update) to enable 80 gbps functionality.

Is USB usurping thunderbolt?

Sources:
https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...SB-Promoter-Group-Announces-USB4®-Version-2.0

https://www.techpowerup.com/298461/...version-2-0-specification-80-gbps-over-type-c

 

[CaseySJ]

USB4® 80Gbps data performance is coming.

The USB-IF announced that they’re working on a major update to USB enable up to 80 Gbps of data performance over the USB Type-C cable and connector. Protocol updates are also being made to enable higher performance USB 3.2, DisplayPort and PCI Express (PCIe) data tunneling to best use the higher available bandwidth.

They're calling it the USB4 Version 2.0 specification. So let's begin the naming nightmare:

• USB4.2 (skip over USB4.1?)
• USB4 2x2
• USB4-80

Curiously, I haven’t heard anything from Apple and/or Intel on this like whether they need to update their thunderbolt controllers (whether with new silicon or with a firmware update) to enable 80 gbps functionality.
...

Most likely this will need new controllers. I say this based on a statement in the TechPowerup article saying that new "active" Thunderbolt cables need to be developed. But for short distances, existing Thunderbolt cables ("passive") can be used. Existing signal drivers and re-drivers are unlikely to be capable of 80Gbps.

 

[dehjomz]

They're calling it the USB4 Version 2.0 specification. So let's begin the naming nightmare:

• USB4.2 (skip over USB4.1?)
• USB4 2x2
• USB4-80

Most likely this will need new controllers. I say this based on a statement in the TechPowerup article saying that new "active" Thunderbolt cables need to be developed. But for short distances, existing Thunderbolt cables ("passive") can be used. Existing signal drivers and re-drivers are unlikely to be capable of 80Gbps.

Yeah the naming scheme is horrendous. Why not just call it USB4.1, 80 Gbps? They also mentioned that the new physical layer will enable USB3.2 data to be tunneled at faster than 20 Gbps. Why is USB3.2 getting any updates at all if we're on USB4?

I also believe we'll need new controllers too. I wonder what version of PCIe they will tunnel via USB4. Is it going to be 8 lanes of PCIe3? 4 lanes of PCIe4? Both?

One thing that is constant in the technology world is new tech is always around the corner, and presents new incentives for consumers to spend more money.

 

[CaseySJ]

Yeah the naming scheme is horrendous. Why not just call it USB4.1, 80 Gbps? They also mentioned that the new physical layer will enable USB3.2 data to be tunneled at faster than 20 Gbps. Why is USB3.2 getting any updates at all if we're on USB4?

I also believe we'll need new controllers too. I wonder what version of PCIe they will tunnel via USB4. Is it going to be 8 lanes of PCIe3? 4 lanes of PCIe4? Both?

The horror!!

One thing that is constant in the technology world is new tech is always around the corner, and presents new incentives for consumers to spend more money.

Wait, isn't that a good thing?

 

[dehjomz]

The horror!!


Wait, isn't that a good thing?

Depends on your perspective lol.

 

[gandem]

Last week I purchased an Acasis TBU401 to replace my Envoy Express. I believe @dehjomz recommended an Acasis enclosure a while ago- many thanks! I also purchased a 2 TB WD SN850X for the enclosure. While this SSD is not on the approved list for the enclosure, the SN850 is and I'm hoping it will be added eventually.
So far the enclosure is working on the ProArt- hot plug and everything! There are some performance hits when plugging into my TS4 dock, so there still seems to be some issues with the Goshen Ridge dock. The performance was off a bit plugged into the UltraFine monitor as well, but not as bad as the TS4. I've tested this enclosure across devices and I'm very happy with the result as I can now bounce large files quickly across my fleet. See below for test results.

EDIT- Just want to point out these results are on Monterey 12.5.1 across all devices.

Spoiler: TBU401 Speed Disk Tests

Plugged into PRO ART- Bottom TB Port

Plugged into Ultra Fine Monitor

Plugged into CalDigit TS4 Dock

Plugged into real 2019 Mac Book Pro

Plugged into real 2019 Mac Pro