Why aren't there more Dual Xeon builds?

[plexi]

Awesome! Ok I see now I was too vague in my original post. My apologies.

Well this is very encouraging. The main reason I was a bit disheartened about not many Dual Xeon builds is I was hoping to just build one that someone else had already worked the bugs out of.

But yeah, this will be for me, I do design, illustration, and photography as a job, the 3D , AE, music stuff will be all for me (at first). I can always fall back to my current mac for work.

Fortunately I already have the programs, they are just dead slow on my mini. Also, although I do not know much about Hackintoshes, I'm definitely a hands on type who really studies and gets things running.

I'll be asking questions again at some point, maybe after this next job pays off.

I use a couple first gen MacPro's for real work, but that's only because that's all I use em for and a client would probably not be impressed if they saw me doing everything on a hack
My main hack build is pretty much the same as Bone123's and it WAY out performs the MacPro's and is just as reliable.
(A first gen 2.66 quad MP gets a geekbench of around 6400 with 8G of 667 ram)

The hack also running stock clock with 8G 1600 ram and getting a geekbench of 10900.
If you wanna drop massive $$ on one of the new 12 core MacPro's, they are stupidly fast, faster than any realistic hack for sure!
However, if you wanna build something for less than $2000 just make an i7 build on the right mobo with the right GPU and take the advice of the folks up here before buying anything.
(Buy the mobo before you buy the CPU)
Good luck!

 

[WonkeyDonkey]

I was looking about for a while for a possible dual CPU hack build. There are one or two on here and a few on insanelymac too, mostly using Supermicro boards or the Classified SR-2 board.

Ive never seen any with a fully edited and working DSDT though which would be a show stopper for me, given the cash outlay for such a system.

Theoretically, any system with a 5500 or 5520 chipset should form the basis of a decent build as they are both used in previous Mac Pro's.

But now with a new generation chipset on the horizon and new CPU's too, I will be waiting to see what that brings, and what the new Mac Pro's are built around when they finally get a refresh.

 

[shibirian]

The main problem with a dual-xeon build is that there is not much to use the 12 cores for...

Even the i7 with its 8 cores is totally over the top right now

So to speak, is there anything else to use a 8 core machine than for Maya/Cinema 4D??

 

[WonkeyDonkey]

Well I do a lot of video encoding stuff here. The programs I use do make use of all available CPU cores.

 

[Pigumon]

Shibirian- Yeah basically that's why I'm asking about dual xeons, I want as many cores/threads as possible because I want to do more 3D rendering and video editing. So in this case, 12 cores aren't even enough.

Plexi, Wonkey- Thanks for the info. I'm trying to keep around $1,500, so it's possible dual xeons won't be feasible.

Maybe someone can answer this- Can you do dual i7's now?

I just want as many cores as I can get for that amount of money.
I don't have to cash for a Mac Pro right now unfortunately.

It really sucks that Ivy Bridge got postponed till next year when I'm wanting to build next month......

What got me started on the whole thing are some Geekbench Hackintosh scores.-

Apple Inc. Mac-F4208DC8 x.x
Intel Core i7 X 980 @ 3.33 GHz (1 processor, 6 cores, 12 threads)
Geekbench 2.2.0 for Mac OS X x86 (64-bit)
Score 15052

Apple Inc. Mac-F42C88C8 x.x
Intel Core i7-2600K @ 3.41 GHz (1 processor, 4 cores, 8 threads)
Geekbench 2.1.7 for Mac OS X x86 (64-bit)
Score 15846


Um and my mac mini has a score of 3038...

 

[thelostswede]

It's really sad to see people discussing things they know nothing about on here.

For one, dual socket Xeon boards aren't that expensive compared to high-end LGA-1366 boards, you can get decent boards that would work for a hack for between $250-300 which compares quite well to high-end single socket LGA-1366 boards, although you don't get quite as much in terms of onboard features for your money.

The problem is the CPU's, they're damn expensive if you want something that's comparable in terms of performance core for core to the single socket desktop parts. You can actually get some really cheap, but not particularly highly clocked ones. As such it's kind of pointless going for a pair of Xeon's as the entry level models end up around or below 2GHz which is a fair bit slower than a single LGA-1366 CPU in general applications. It might make sense for those that run seriously multi-threaded applications, but that's about it.

On top of that, you need to roll your own DSDT for the motherboard, which might not be so easy. It's also worth taking into account that the dual-socket boards have a fairly basic range of BIOS/UEFI options which could prevent it from working well as a hack.

And please people, if you're going to discuss things, at least know what you're talking about before you start an argument.

 

[WonkeyDonkey]

+1 re: Board and CPU cost.

Dual CPU boards can be had here for a very good price point if you shop around; but something Ive always been mindful of is, as pointed out, the CPU cost. And Xeon chips have never really come down that much in price (if at all) when the newer generations have been released. This is in contrast to desktop chips which normally see a reduction to help clear out inventory.

Just having a quick look at the main supplier I normally use, the decent dual chip boards are in the region of £300 to £400 a pop. Not bad at all really. But then the cheapest 6 core CPU (which happens to be the low power 60W variant) is just shy of £800; this is a 2.26 Ghz part. The 2.93 6 core chip comes in at £1142. Multiply this by 2, add in the mainboard cost and your looking at a figure around £2800, which converted to $$$ is around $4500. And thats before even thinking about the ECC memory required. These figures include the current rate of tax here in blighty of 20%.

Would it stop me buying? No it wouldnt. But I would choose my parts and suppliers very carefully. My intended use for such a system would make it worthwhile in the long run. My reluctance right now is down to 3 factors 1) The lack of any fully edited DSDT's for the decent dual cpu boards out there; 2) There will be a new Xeon line of chips released next year; 3) Until Apple produces a system based on the new chips and architecture it is too much of a risk for me personally.

If I look at a similar spec for a genuine Mac Pro with the same CPU's, it comes in at the £5000 ($8000) mark. That is for the minimum spec system with just the CPU's upgraded to the 2.93 Ghz parts mentioned above, although it does include the minimum 6Gb system memory too. Considering that I have most of the other components already that would be needed, a 'hack mac pro'?? would definitely be the more economical option.

The good thing for me personally is that this is not a 'do or die' build. My existing desktop system is one of the most stable systems I have ever had the pleasure of using (Mostly due to the vast amount of information and resources available here at Tonymac) and aside from the large amount of video encoding I do plus the large number of virtualised systems I use, it will handle anything I throw at it with ease. Even the virtualised systems run perfectly well; they just dont 'fly' when I fire them up. So overall, I consider myself in a lucky position at the moment; I can afford to wait, a long time if need be and still achieve what I want in the meantime.

As Miyagi said to Daniel San, I'll wait and get the bus. It will still get my there eventually.

 

[shibirian]

Maybe someone can answer this- Can you do dual i7's now?

EVGA once announced a dual-i7 mobo, but it doesn't make any sense, because i7-processors can "only" do 1QPI, which means they slow down communication between each other slowing themselves down a lot. So it's still Xeon for everyone who likes to have more raw threaded grinding power.

Oh, and here's a nice dual-1366 board, but keep in mind: Lion needs to be able to support it! :?
http://www.evga.com/articles/00537/

 

[thelostswede]

+1 re: Board and CPU cost.

Dual CPU boards can be had here for a very good price point if you shop around; but something Ive always been mindful of is, as pointed out, the CPU cost. And Xeon chips have never really come down that much in price (if at all) when the newer generations have been released. This is in contrast to desktop chips which normally see a reduction to help clear out inventory.

Just having a quick look at the main supplier I normally use, the decent dual chip boards are in the region of £300 to £400 a pop. Not bad at all really. But then the cheapest 6 core CPU (which happens to be the low power 60W variant) is just shy of £800; this is a 2.26 Ghz part. The 2.93 6 core chip comes in at £1142. Multiply this by 2, add in the mainboard cost and your looking at a figure around £2800, which converted to $$$ is around $4500. And thats before even thinking about the ECC memory required. These figures include the current rate of tax here in blighty of 20%.

Would it stop me buying? No it wouldnt. But I would choose my parts and suppliers very carefully. My intended use for such a system would make it worthwhile in the long run. My reluctance right now is down to 3 factors 1) The lack of any fully edited DSDT's for the decent dual cpu boards out there; 2) There will be a new Xeon line of chips released next year; 3) Until Apple produces a system based on the new chips and architecture it is too much of a risk for me personally.

If I look at a similar spec for a genuine Mac Pro with the same CPU's, it comes in at the £5000 ($8000) mark. That is for the minimum spec system with just the CPU's upgraded to the 2.93 Ghz parts mentioned above, although it does include the minimum 6Gb system memory too. Considering that I have most of the other components already that would be needed, a 'hack mac pro'?? would definitely be the more economical option.

The good thing for me personally is that this is not a 'do or die' build. My existing desktop system is one of the most stable systems I have ever had the pleasure of using (Mostly due to the vast amount of information and resources available here at Tonymac) and aside from the large amount of video encoding I do plus the large number of virtualised systems I use, it will handle anything I throw at it with ease. Even the virtualised systems run perfectly well; they just dont 'fly' when I fire them up. So overall, I consider myself in a lucky position at the moment; I can afford to wait, a long time if need be and still achieve what I want in the meantime.

As Miyagi said to Daniel San, I'll wait and get the bus. It will still get my there eventually.

I dunno where you shop, but you can get a dual socket LGA-1366 board in the UK for well under than £250, so you might want to recheck those prices.

As for the CPU's, well, they're not exactly coming down in price because there's no competition, so what do you expect? The other problem is that Intel is artificially limiting their CPU's and you're forced into buying specific models for two socket motherboards. Intel isn't exactly going to drop its prices if there's no reason for it and the price reductions as far as its consumer CPU's are concerned are more or less just a show, as the company has a fairly set price structure and you can almost predict the price tag of the replacement model if you know their pricing structure.

That's kind of all besides the point though, as it's obviously not the cost that's preventing people from investing in dual Xeon setups, but the fact that there's next to no community support. It's not as if people haven't put together dual Xeon setups, but it takes a lot of effort.

Here's an example system with the EVGA board mentioned http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzsH5z1PqRU

 

[WonkeyDonkey]

Well I use scan.co.uk mostly, but in fairness that isnt really a business/workstation/server site so fair comment re: pricing.

Plus I wouldnt actually want to go and just buy the cheapest board I could find.

As to that EVGA board, yep, Ive seen that a few times and I know some people have used it. I kinda think its not quite the board for me though. Aside from its huge dimensions, it is clearly aimed at the enthusiast market with multiple graphics and overclocking in mind. Not what Im personally looking for.

Maybe we should have a forum dedicated to dual socket builds and help ? Just a thought....