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When will macOS stop x86 support?

I guess it comes down to a distinction over the meaning of the word "based".

I think it's fair to consider that "Unix based" means "approved of by ATT"

If that's how you choose to define it, then it's definitional to GNU/Linux that it's "not Unix."

This dialog has stuck in my so and I want to risk beating a horse to illuminate the matter.

I'm jumping on the new trend of quoting one's self...

I've been watching hours of old Steve Jobs keynotes and came across these points from Macworld 2000 about Rhapsody becoming Mac OS X:

Jobs Macworld 2000 Darwin 1.jpg

Jobs Macworld 2000 Darwin 2.jpg

Jobs Macworld 2000 Darwin 3.jpg


—Straight from the horse's mouth.

While the second image could be regarded as an allusion to some true Unixness of Mac OS X, with Jobs choosing the term "Linux like" to garner approval, the 3rd image refers to the foundations of Mac OS X in Free BSD Unix and the last point cements the fact that Mac was never Unix in the strict sense because Darwin is "completely open source".

OK, so what's the "Unix" in Free BSD?

Jobs: "It's got Free BSD Unix which is the same as Linux."


//FreeBSD is a free and open-source Unix-like operating system descended from the Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD). The first version of FreeBSD was released in 1993. In 2005, FreeBSD was the most popular open-source BSD operating system, accounting for more than three-quarters of all installed and permissively licensed BSD systems.[4]//

ATT Unix(R) is not open source. Closed source and licensing were what the Unix Wars were fought about. BSD emerged through academic adoption and evolution of Unix(R) before ATT realized they wanted to fight about it. So "Unix" is grandfathered into "BSD Unix."

If ATT has a Unix(R) qualification program which Apple XNU (Darwin) passes, it doesn't diminish Jobs' own claim that Mac is not Unix. And this distinction makes complete sense in context because Apple hasn't allowed ATT to own the core of its SW stack.

QED.
 
Saying it's "Linux-like" implies that it's not Linux.

Linux is described as Unix-like because they are not Unix.
 
ATT Unix(R) is not open source. Closed source and licensing were what the Unix Wars were fought about. BSD emerged through academic adoption and evolution of Unix(R) before ATT realized they wanted to fight about it. So "Unix" is grandfathered into "BSD Unix."

If ATT has a Unix(R) qualification program which Apple XNU (Darwin) passes, it doesn't diminish Jobs' own claim that Mac is not Unix. And this distinction makes complete sense in context because Apple hasn't allowed ATT to own the core of its SW stack.

QED.
So AT&T Unix is still closed source? So where did Linux kernel source come from? :rolleyes:

and FreeBSD is an imitation of Unix? :rolleyes:
 
So AT&T Unix is still closed source? So where did Linux kernel source come from? :rolleyes:

and FreeBSD is an imitation of Unix? :rolleyes:
Linux was created from scratch as a hobby by Linus Torvalds. It's a kernel itself but it's not UNIX. All the packages put together by the distros made Linux look like an UNIX.

macOS was based off from FreeBSD which was based off from original AT&T UNIX. Yes, macOS is heavily modified OS from it's original UNIX and it operates like an UNIX machine.
 
So AT&T Unix is still closed source? So where did Linux kernel source come from? :rolleyes:

and FreeBSD is an imitation of Unix? :rolleyes:
I explained this in a previous too long post... Stallman's GNU had everything but a kernel, and as chance would have it, the ascendance of the inexpensive Intel protected-mode x86 PC was coincident with the technical interests of a Finnish highschool student named Linus, and the rest is history.

BSD Unix was an important evolution of Bell Labs work done under academic auspices at University of California Berkeley, notable for an early IP networking stack and for wide adoption by DoD-funded and aligned organizations.

FreeBSD is an output of the Unix Wars.

Mach microkernel upon which Apple stack was based is a Carnegie Mellon University investigation into reducing overhead and increasing concurrency of HW access. (They pioneered RAID too.)

Steve Jobs was careful to choose these technologies for NeXT's systems, which in turn became Rhapsody with Darwin and Mac OS and evolving under an open source umbrella called XNU.

The significant factor for this discussion is that the foundations of macOS are very properly and formally "Not Unix" while owing their design heritage to the Unix Philosphy and being Unix compatible.

As to true unixness, for most Unix users in the world, Linux is a more real Unix than the phone company's unix. So it's a convoluted situation.

Please read wikipedia on each of these topics.

There was an outspoken historian of the Unix Wars named Eric Raymond who opined extensively about all this in its heyday, so such reading is relevant.
 
macOS was based off from FreeBSD which was based off from original AT&T UNIX. Yes, macOS is heavily modified OS from it's original UNIX and it operates like an UNIX machine.

The use of the word "based" is too casual for this topic. Apple's SW is very carefully not based on any code from the phone company, although it would be no surprise to find Apple has licensed certain tidbits of their stack from ATT.

MacOS is not and never has been Unix in the ATT sense.
 
Free software is very good nowadays.
Ubuntu and FreeBSD even provide builds for IBM Power architect.

If you are a military corp, bank or government who wants to take advantage of IBM hardware advancement while to hold every bit of security inside the organization, Ubuntu or FreeBSD are the 1st choice. :clap:
 
Free software is very good nowadays.
Ubuntu and FreeBSD even provide builds for IBM Power architect.

If you are a military corp, bank or government who wants to take advantage of IBM hardware advancement while to hold every bit of security inside the organization, Ubuntu or FreeBSD are the 1st choice. :clap:

Ubuntu, while open source, is owned by a for-profit company called Canonical.
 
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In 1984, the same year as the Mac introduction and before the Unix Wars, Richard Stallman at the MIT Media Lab published the GNU Manifesto in Dr. Dobbs Journal (an influential programming magazine) announcing his intention to re-code from scratch a Unix compatible system and make it freely available.

In the article, he outlined his philosophy of freedom.

Later he expended his ideas into a critique of the open source movement and set his philosophy apart from open source.


Stallman makes many points, which we will find relevant to the culture of Apple and hackintoshing.

But in immediate context the most pertinent observations are about ambiguity in common-sense terms, such as "open source" and freedom:

(I've mashed up excerpts from Stallman's philosophical exposition)

In a world of digital sounds, images, and words, free software becomes increasingly essential for freedom in general.

"Think of free speech, not free beer"

The terms “free software” and “open source” stand for almost the same range of programs. However, they say deeply different things about those programs, based on different values. The free software movement campaigns for freedom for the users of computing; it is a movement for freedom and justice.

Philosophical values and practical values can overlap and disagree:

By contrast, the open source idea values mainly practical advantage and does not campaign for principles. This is why we do not agree with open source, and do not use that term.

The official definition of open source software (which is published by the Open Source Initiative and is too long to include here) was derived indirectly from our criteria for free software. It is not the same; it is a little looser in some respects. Nonetheless, their definition agrees with our definition in most cases.

The GNU philosophy:

When we call software “free,” we mean that it respects the users' essential freedoms: the freedom to run it, to study and change it, and to redistribute copies with or without changes. This is a matter of freedom, not price...

I believe that Steve Jobs found this philosophy agreeable, but his interest in freedom ended with himself. He privileged open source, not freedom.

As soon as he got back to Apple in 1997, he determinedly and unabashedly set about selling mac users to big business by reinventing the Mac as both a TV and as the development station for content (Pro).

In privileging himself, Jobs was far from alone. But this was antithetical to Stallman's philosophy.

(Keep in mind Stallman is writing his particular values. The reason he's worth listening to is that because like Steve Jobs, Stallman led work the changed the entire world.)

Not all of the users and developers of free software agreed with the goals of the free software movement. In 1998, a part of the free software community splintered off and began campaigning in the name of “open source.” The term was originally proposed to avoid a possible misunderstanding of the term “free software,” but it soon became associated with philosophical views quite different from those of the free software movement.

[So,] The term “free software” is prone to misinterpretation: an unintended meaning [per GNU], “software you can get for zero price,” fits the term just as well as the intended meaning, “software which gives the user certain freedoms.”

We address this problem by publishing the definition of free software... This is not a perfect solution; it cannot completely eliminate the problem [of terminology].

An unambiguously correct term would be better, if it didn't present other problems. Unfortunately, all the alternatives in English have problems of their own. [...] For instance, in some contexts the French and Spanish word “libre” works well, but people in India do not recognize it at all. Every proposed replacement for “free software” has some kind of semantic problem—and this includes “open source software.”

Re licensing:

Another misunderstanding of “open source” is the idea that it means “not using the GNU GPL.” This tends to accompany [yet another] misunderstanding that “free software” means “GPL-covered software.” These are both mistaken: the GNU GPL qualifies as an open source license and most of the open source licenses qualify as software licenses. But there are many [free/open] software licenses aside from the GNU GPL.

I hope this provides some deeper context for the topic at hand.

Regarding Canonical, it's an open source firm, but their product and values acknowledge Stallman's idea of freedom.

Stallman's diatribes consider the tension between claims to product and claims to branding, which adds to the confusion, but that's one step beyond...
 
Ubuntu, while open source, is owned by a for-profit company called Canonical.
It is good for users like us to support them with money and in return, they provide us periodical software security updates and technical support. :clap:

Otherwise, there is no fund to counter-balance Windows and Apple.
 
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