Contribute
Register

Nvidia controls Nvidia drivers, not Apple.

Status
Not open for further replies.
mattystonnie said:
I believe they had a partnership involving those MacBook Pro with Nvidia GPU, they had support until High Sierra. More importantly after Facebook problem, privacy is a big factor during this days, Nvidia has a telemetry system and Apple doesn’t like that. Apple also wants to stick their hands in Nvidia’s drivers.
Nvidia is more for gaming and expensive, can make Apple products costa extra $$$. I’m happy with my AMD GPU so far.
Click to expand...

The MacBook Pros that have Nvidia GPUs and are still officially supported with macOS updates have Nvidia driver support in Mojave. That's why most Kepler cards still work OOB in Mojave.

It's the Maxwells, Pascals, and Turings that need drivers. Nvidia drivers and Cuda are tightly held, closed source technologies so it's all on Nvidia to develop and release said drivers.

I don't know what Nvidia is doing wrong but it seems everyday more and more companies are moving to AMD GPUs... Microsoft, Sony, Apple... And, today, it was announced that even Samsung will be using AMD GPUs.
 
pastrychef said:
The MacBook Pros that have Nvidia GPUs and are still officially supported with macOS updates have Nvidia driver support in Mojave. That's why most Kepler cards still work OOB in Mojave.

It's the Maxwells, Pascals, and Turings that need drivers. Nvidia drivers and Cuda are tightly held, closed source technologies so it's all on Nvidia to develop and release said drivers.

I don't know what Nvidia is doing wrong but it seems everyday more and more companies are moving to AMD GPUs... Microsoft, Sony, Apple... And, today, it was announced that even Samsung will be using AMD GPUs.
Click to expand...
Sorry I'm mostly ignorant on this topic and I don't want to make anyone angry or uncomfortable but @pastrychef could you please explain then why Nvidia is not releasing mojave drivers for their recent GPUs? Your best guess if this information is unavailable (as I guess).
I know I could search the web for an answer but apparently it's mostly fake news and I want your opinion.
Thank you for your time.
Best,
-a-
 
asheenlevrai said:
Sorry I'm mostly ignorant on this topic and I don't want to make anyone angry or uncomfortable but @pastrychef could you please explain then why Nvidia is not releasing mojave drivers for its recent gpu? Your best guess if this information is unavailable (as I guess).
I know I could search the web for an answer but apparently it's mostly fake news and I want your opinion.
Thank you for your time.
Best,
-a-
Click to expand...

I really don't know and the lack of any official communications from Nvidia doesn't help. I doubt that you'll find any concrete answer to the question. At first, I thought it was just that Nvidia didn't have Metal 2 drivers ready, but, geez, it's been about a year since the Mojave beta was released to developers...

My personal conjectures...
  • If I ran Nvidia and Apple told me that I am not allowed to release Mojave drivers, I'd tell them to go #$^% themselves. I would not jeopardize the relationship my company has with its users to appease Apple, whom I no longer have any business dealings with.
  • I don't think Nvidia has completely given up on macOS since they continue to release High Sierra driver updates.
  • Some people speculated that the extended wait is so that they can include Turing support, but that doesn't make sense because Nvidia continued to release macOS drivers after the release of Pascal without Pascal support. It wasn't until about 9 months after the release of Pascal that the Nvidia web drivers supported them.
  • Some people speculated that Nvidia was appeasing Apple's wishes in the hopes that Apple would offer Nvidia GPUs in their Macs again, but I think anyone can clearly see Apple has no intentions of doing that in the foreseeable future. Those digging in the macOS betas have also not seen any sign of support for additional Nvidia GPUs.
 
Guys,

@pastrychef is correct in saying that Nvidia can release updated drivers for Mojave right now (signed or un-signed) if they had them ready, I've been following the Mojave/Nvidia debate from the start and this is my take on it :-

As far as releasing Metal 2 GRAPHICS capable drivers goes I really don't think Nvidia has a problem, I personally think the issue is all to do with Nvidia's propriety CUDA compute API.

Apple wants all compute functions to be handled in MacOS by their Metal 2 COMPUTE API which is a semi-open API, but Nvidia only wants to support CUDA, which is a closed propriety API and every piece of software that uses CUDA has to have a commercial license agreement with Nvidia. So its in Nvidia's interest to try and push CUDA on to every supported OS as its easy money for them.

It's possible that Nvidia need Apple to add something to MacOS Mojave in order for CUDA to work or it my be that Apple have to sign application API's differently to standard drivers ...

Since Nvidia GPU compute cores are optimised for CUDA it could be that they perform less optimally when executing Metal 2 compute and thus loose their performance advantage over AMD's CU compute architecture when performing the same task which could be a reason why Nvidia is reluctant to embrace Apples Metal 2 compute API other than the commercial aspect.

This is my best guess as to what the issue is, but it makes sense when you look at the facts.

I'm not 100% sure about this but i think that even the old Mac Mini's / iMacs that have on board Nvidia GPU's for which Apple have written Mojave drivers for there are still no CUDA drivers currently available (which can only be supplied by Nvidia) ... if true then this would back up my theory.

Just my two cents ...

Cheers
Jay
 
jaymonkey said:
Guys,

@pastrychef is correct in saying that Nvidia can release updated drivers for Mojave right now (signed or un-signed) if they had them ready, I've been following the Mojave/Nvidia debate from the start and this is my take on it :-

As far as releasing Metal 2 GRAPHICS capable drivers goes I really don't think Nvidia has a problem, I personally think the issue is all to do with Nvidia's propriety CUDA compute API.

Apple wants all compute functions to be handled in MacOS by their Metal 2 COMPUTE API which is a semi-open API, but Nvidia only wants to support CUDA, which is a closed propriety API and every piece of software that uses CUDA has to have a commercial license agreement with Nvidia. So its in Nvidia's interest to try and push CUDA on to every supported OS as its easy money for them.

It's possible that Nvidia need Apple to add something to MacOS Mojave in order for CUDA to work or it my be that Apple have to sign application API's differently to standard drivers ...

Since Nvidia GPU compute cores are optimised for CUDA it could be that they perform less optimally when executing Metal 2 compute and thus loose their performance advantage over AMD's CU compute architecture when performing the same task which could be a reason why Nvidia is reluctant to embrace Apples Metal 2 compute API other than the commercial aspect.

This is my best guess as to what the issue is, but it makes sense when you look at the facts.

I'm not 100% sure about this but i think that even the old Mac Mini's / iMacs that have on board Nvidia GPU's for which Apple have written Mojave drivers for there are still no CUDA drivers currently available (which can only be supplied by Nvidia) ... if true then this would back up my theory.

Just my two cents ...

Cheers
Jay
Click to expand...

The truth is that Apple makes zero profit from Nvidia GPUs in Mac Os, they want some cash there.
 
AMD has the console market tied up with both the Play Station and Xbox. They are making big in-roads into the server market with competitive prices and very well performing CPU and GPU product in their particular fields. They supply Apple with a small amount of GPU product and are working with Samsung to bring AMD graphics to smart phones and tablets - A market that has huge potential for growth over the coming years.

Nvidia is at the same time losing market share in the server (GPU) market - but it has a huge marketing budget that is spent in the gaming industry which it dominates. Gaming is a very small part of overall computing sales and profits - Apple desktop is tiny market size for Nvidia, which in its self is a massive company. Nvidia has no end of year expectations for business during the 2019 period published to date - they don't know or don't want to say where they forecast that they will land.

Nvidia is a very big company and like Intel, they are both having plenty of issues at present - that is likely to be reasonably short term in the grand scheme of things. Companies fortunes rise and fall - it is part of a cycle. AMD have had a tough few years prior to more recent CPU success. Although new GPU success may still be a year or two away at present - but it is expected to come with newer technology GPU hardware especially for the more consumer focused market segment.
 
Macallan
GA-B75M-HD3 |  i7 3770 |  Radeon HD 5570
Adrian B said:
AMD has the console market tied up with both the Play Station and Xbox. They are making big in-roads into the server market with competitive prices and very well performing CPU and GPU product in their particular fields. They supply Apple with a small amount of GPU product and are working with Samsung to bring AMD graphics to smart phones and tablets - A market that has huge potential for growth over the coming years.

Nvidia is at the same time losing market share in the server (GPU) market - but it has a huge marketing budget that is spent in the gaming industry which it dominates. Gaming is a very small part of overall computing sales and profits - Apple desktop is tiny market size for Nvidia, which in its self is a massive company. Nvidia has no end of year expectations for business during the 2019 period published to date - they don't know or don't want to say where they forecast that they will land.

Nvidia is a very big company and like Intel, they are both having plenty of issues at present - that is likely to be reasonably short term in the grand scheme of things. Companies fortunes rise and fall - it is part of a cycle. AMD have had a tough few years prior to more recent CPU success. Although new GPU success may still be a year or two away at present - but it is expected to come with newer technology GPU hardware especially for the more consumer focused market segment.
Click to expand...

Yup. Lisa Su is kicking ass!
 
Jet Setter
Fatal1ty Z370 Gaming-ITX/ac |  i7 8700K |  Radeon Vega Frontier Edition Air
mattystonnie said:
High Sierra is the past, its like talking about Windows XP. This thread should be closed.
Click to expand...

I think the last Nvidia web driver for High Sierra was released about 2-3 weeks ago. Not really that far in the past. Certainly not as far back in the past as Windows XP.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Copyright © 2010 - 2024 tonymacx86 LLC
Back
Top