[Guide] Lenovo IdeaPad U330/U430/U530 using Clover UEFI (10.11)

[RehabMan]

To clarify, such SSDs also have PCI-e flavors,

Yes, but they are not considered M2. You're referring to NVMe.

so the slot would be able to take at least an AHCI-type PCI-e SSD if they ever make them that size.

AHCI-type PCIe SSD is M2/SATA. It behaves exactly like an SSD connected via SATA.

I don't believe the slot in this laptop can be used with NVMe devices.

At least that's my understanding (the industry has made it a bit confusing)... NVMe is special and requires special BIOS support and special hardware. The type of this M2 slot is for mSATA only.

 

[kylec]

Yes, but they are not considered M2. You're referring to NVMe.

No, M.2 is the name for the type of card (also called NGFF). NVMe is a new controller interface for SSDs, an alternative to AHCI.

AHCI-type PCIe SSD is M2/SATA. It behaves exactly like an SSD connected via SATA.

PCI-e interface using AHCI is not the same thing as SATA. SATA is a physical/electrical connector spec. There are plenty of PCI-e SSDs that do not use SATA. They are divided into those that use an AHCI controller and those that use an NVMe controller.

I don't believe the slot in this laptop can be used with NVMe devices.

It likely wouldn't be able to boot from NVMe. My point was that, if they made them in the correct size, the slot could use a PCI-e drive and boot from it if it was AHCI.

 

[RehabMan]

No, M.2 is the name for the type of card (also called NGFF). NVMe is a new controller interface for SSDs, an alternative to AHCI.

OK. And NVMe devices use M.2/NGFF or not? My understanding is yes, but they don't go through the chipset SATA controller and instead use a new hw/sw interface.

PCI-e interface using AHCI is not the same thing as SATA. SATA is a physical/electrical connector spec. There are plenty of PCI-e SSDs that do not use SATA. They are divided into those that use an AHCI controller and those that use an NVMe controller.

I come from a software background. My understanding is that to the AHCI driver it is the same thing. It is using the SATA controller as included in the Intel chipset. So from that standpoint, it is the same, even though it doesn't use the SATA cable.

Things always get muddy when acronyms like SATA are used to mean multiple things. Perhaps Intel should have given a different name for the SATA controller that is part of the chipset... but they didn't ("SATA Host Controller" is used in the chipset datasheet). Or perhaps assuming the term SATA is limited to only the SATA physical interconnect is not appropriate.

It likely wouldn't be able to boot from NVMe.

Correct. BIOS services likely not there.

My point was that, if they made them in the correct size, the slot could use a PCI-e drive and boot from it if it was AHCI.

But no performance benefit over a SATA device, since it still goes through the chipset SATA controller, right?

The only benefit of mSATA (M.2 PCIe SSD) device is the slightly smaller/lighter form factor, right?

The real advantage here would be for those that want to install both a SATA SSD and a PCIe SSD for use with striping... eg. (software) RAID0.

If you're only planning to install one SSD... no advantage to go the M.2/mSATA route.

 

[kylec]

OK. And NVMe devices use M.2/NGFF or not?

All that I know of. But you could make one in a mini PCI-e format if you wanted to, but all of them are more recent and so use M.2.

My understanding is yes, but they don't go through the chipset SATA controller and instead use a new hw/sw interface.

It is PCI-e. An AHCI-based PCI-e drive also bypasses the SATA controller, and so the new devices will go past its 6 Gbit bandwidth limit.

I come from a software background. My understanding is that to the AHCI driver it is the same thing. It is using the SATA controller as included in the Intel chipset.



Correct. BIOS services likely not there.



But no performance benefit over a SATA device, since it still goes through the chipset SATA controller, right?

Nah, imagine you have a version of a SATA controller, but on the PCI-e bus, and connected to only a single drive. To the system, this device identifies itself as speaking AHCI, but it's not a SATA controller since it doesn't provide SATA ports and the SATA spec bandwidths don't apply.

 

[RehabMan]

All that I know of. But you could make one in a mini PCI-e format if you wanted to, but all of them are more recent and so use M.2.

And I suppose it is possible for a full size PCIe card too (for desktops).

It is PCI-e. An AHCI-based PCI-e drive also bypasses the SATA controller, and so the new devices will go past its 6 Gbit bandwidth limit.

Yes... like I said...

Nah, imagine you have a version of a SATA controller, but on the PCI-e bus, and connected to only a single drive. To the system, this device identifies itself as speaking AHCI, but it's not a SATA controller since it doesn't provide SATA ports and the SATA spec bandwidths don't apply.

I think you're talking about an NVMe device here... The mSATA device I have in my BRIX goes through the Intel SATA controller in AHCI mode.

 

[kylec]

I think you're talking about an NVMe device here... The mSATA device I have in my BRIX goes through the Intel SATA controller in AHCI mode.

That's mSATA. It's different - actually SATA. Same with the 42mm M.2 drives.

But the long M.2 drives are usually not SATA. These are just PCI-e devices, and they may or may not use NVMe instead of AHCI.

Maybe an illustration will help...

AHCI drive: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VELD92U/?tag=tonymacx86com-20
NVMe drive: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B015CWQY4Q/?tag=tonymacx86com-20

 

[RehabMan]

That's mSATA. It's different - actually SATA. Same with the 42mm M.2 drives.

Yes, that's my understanding. And yet they do not use the SATA cable... (instead using a PCIe connection). I think you can see why two people discussing this can get confusing.

But the long M.2 drives are usually not SATA. These are just PCI-e devices, and they may or may not use NVMe instead of AHCI.

Maybe an illustration will help...

AHCI drive: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VELD92U/?tag=tonymacx86com-20
NVMe drive: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B015CWQY4Q/?tag=tonymacx86com-20

I'm pretty certain this laptop will not support anything but mSATA drives...

The BIOS UEFI services are not there to boot from it. As to whether the hardware supports it, who knows... It is possible, but then you'd need a way to add the support to Clover (adding the necessary UEFI drivers). Of course, in that case, you'd have to boot Clover from the SATA drive so the drivers could be loaded. With the necessary services in place, and drivers installed for OS X, it might be possible to get boot.efi to boot the system from such a device.

I think the original question here (refer to post #182) was regarding mSATA devices such as the drive I have in my BRIX...

 

[fanshome]

I bought a BCM94352 which ID is \VEN_14E4&DEV_43B1&SUBSYS_855C1043

It passed the U430P's white list check too.

 

[RehabMan]

Updated just now to 10.11.3. No issues to note.

 

[alphakp295]

I'm using m.2 2242 and 2.5" ssd for the laptop. runs great, and i'm using osx on one and win on the other one. works great!