Asus Z690 ProArt Creator WiFi (Thunderbolt 4) + i7-12700K + AMD RX 6800 XT

[Krader]

Hi guys, I'm happy to tell you that I managed to get the hot plug on my Apollo Twin X working by updating the BIOS to the latest version. If anyone has the same problem with the same interface, this is probably the solution.

However, Pro Tools hasn't been working for me for a while now. Does anyone have the same problem or know what it could be due to?

In Avid Link only the Products page is shown to me, the other screens do not load. When I start Pro Tools it doesn't work, and I get a generic error message. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling, clearing the Avid Link cache, removing the plugins.

Thanks in advance.

 

[CaseySJ]

Thanks for the question! This gives me the chance of illustrating my idea. The short answer is yes, the main reason is speed. One day, not so far away, I will buy a true Mac, probably a Mac Studio because I cannot afford anything more expensive than that. It has only 10gb port and so the long answer is that I'd like to build up a Windows machine with the same hw I'm using now for my actual Hackintosh (except for GPU and maybe part of my RAM with a less power CPU) and keep all my storage that I have now and connect it to my future Mac Studio by the way of a Thunderbolt port. Particularly I'm using 4 NVMe's and I want to keep as much speed as I can from them.

When we connect a Thunderbolt cable directly between two computers to enable Thunderbolt Ethernet Bridge, we do not get 40Gbps. Instead, we get at most 10Gbps I believe, which is same as USB 3.2 Gen 2.

I’ll try the experiment again and check the speed.

 

[etorix]

Thanks for the question! This gives me the chance of illustrating my idea.

Explaining one's full use case and requirements upfront is always a good idea.

One day, not so far away, I will buy a true Mac, probably a Mac Studio because I cannot afford anything more expensive than that. It has only 10gb port and so the long answer is that I'd like to build up a Windows machine with the same hw I'm using now for my actual Hackintosh (except for GPU and maybe part of my RAM with a less power CPU) and keep all my storage that I have now and connect it to my future Mac Studio by the way of a Thunderbolt port.

Do you need it as a Windows desktop on top of SMB server duty, or is it just for sharing files?
In the latter case, skip Windows and go for a dedicated NAS build (OpenMediaVault, TrueNAS or whatever suits you). Make it 10 GbE and be happy with that—it's not easy to saturate a 10 Gb/s link from or to a NAS… and it may well require more RAM and CPU power than you think.

TrueNAS and Other Custom NAS Builds

I should add that I recently built a heavily non-conventional TrueNAS Scale system based on these components: Intel Alder Lake i5-12600K with Asus ROG Strix Z690-G Gaming WiFi mATX -- excellent combo price from NewEgg 64GB (2x32GB) DDR5 5600MHz CL30 G.Skill Ripjaws S5 ID-Cooling IS-55...

www.tonymacx86.com

If you do want a Thunderbolt link to your expansion storage, keep your Hackintosh as a Hackintosh and share from it!

Particularly I'm using 4 NVMe's and I want to keep as much speed as I can from them.

Video editing on the NAS maybe?
This is a regular question on the TrueNAS forum, and the suggestion is generally to keep editing locally and use a 10 GbE NAS to archive the rushes and the final result. Those who do edit directly on a workgroup NAS typically use an all-NVMe EPYC server for that.

 

[etorix]

When we connect a Thunderbolt cable directly between two computers to enable Thunderbolt Ethernet Bridge, we do not get 40Gbps. Instead, we get at most 10Gbps I believe, which is same as USB 3.2 Gen 2.

I haven't found the official documentation yet, but it seems to be 10 Gb/s indeed (see under 4.)

Thunderbolt 3 explained: Why you need one of the world's fastest ports

Everything you need to know about Thunderbolt 3

www.laptopmag.com

or maybe 10 Gb/s each way (with an example of TB4 networking under Windows after all)

Thunderbolt™ 4 Networking Boosts your Efficiency in Data Transferring

The introduction of Thunderbolt 4 which explains how it benefits users, how it works with MSI Business Laptop, and how to enable Thunderbolt4 Networking step by step

www.msi.com

 

[Azimuth1]

When we connect a Thunderbolt cable directly between two computers to enable Thunderbolt Ethernet Bridge, we do not get 40Gbps. Instead, we get at most 10Gbps I believe, which is same as USB 3.2 Gen 2.

I’ll try the experiment again and check the speed.

I haven't tried myself but I guess you can get 20Gbps bi-directional, which makes sense for the declared speed of 40gbps. Maybe this link could be useful: https://chrisbergeron.com/2021/07/25/ultra-fast-thunderbolt-nas-with-apple-m1-and-linux/

 

[Azimuth1]

Explaining one's full use case and requirements upfront is always a good idea.

Do you need it as a Windows desktop on top of SMB server duty, or is it just for sharing files?

Just for sharing files, indeed!

In the latter case, skip Windows and go for a dedicated NAS build (OpenMediaVault, TrueNAS or whatever suits you). Make it 10 GbE and be happy with that—it's not easy to saturate a 10 Gb/s link from or to a NAS… and it may well require more RAM and CPU power than you think.

TrueNAS and Other Custom NAS Builds

I should add that I recently built a heavily non-conventional TrueNAS Scale system based on these components: Intel Alder Lake i5-12600K with Asus ROG Strix Z690-G Gaming WiFi mATX -- excellent combo price from NewEgg 64GB (2x32GB) DDR5 5600MHz CL30 G.Skill Ripjaws S5 ID-Cooling IS-55...

www.tonymacx86.com

I have already built an Xpenology rig and I'm particularly happy with that but it's a 2nd level NAS (it means it serves as backup); nowadays I'm relying heavily on Gen4 PCIEx NVMes which can transfer stuff at around 5/6000MB/s (while in cache, ) and I wouldn't lose this level of performance, that's why I thought to Thunderbolt ports... at least I can have 20Gbps bi-directional (see my other post above)

If you do want a Thunderbolt link to your expansion storage, keep your Hackintosh as a Hackintosh and share from it!

Not sure if I can do that because Thunderbolt 4 ports (8540 chip) on my Asus Z690 Pro Art don't support the Thunderbolt bridge function under Ventura/Sonoma, am I right @CaseySJ ?

Video editing on the NAS maybe?
This is a regular question on the TrueNAS forum, and the suggestion is generally to keep editing locally and use a 10 GbE NAS to archive the rushes and the final result. Those who do edit directly on a workgroup NAS typically use an all-NVMe EPYC server for that.

Yes, correct. Video editing and photo too. The idea of having an high-performance Windows server is also about saving money because I think I can achieve the same performance of a a Qnap NAS without paying that big amount of $$$. Plus I consider to regularly upgrade a Windows machine while I couldn't with Qnap.

 

[CaseySJ]

I haven't tried myself but I guess you can get 20Gbps bi-directional, which makes sense for the declared speed of 40gbps. Maybe this link could be useful: https://chrisbergeron.com/2021/07/25/ultra-fast-thunderbolt-nas-with-apple-m1-and-linux/

Quite right, I'm getting 18.2 to 18.3 Gbps transfer speed over Thunderbolt 3 between my Hackintosh and MacBook Pro 14" as measured by iperf

% iperf -c 169.254.182.91 -e
------------------------------------------------------------
Client connecting to 169.254.182.91, TCP port 5001 with pid 1940 (1 flows)
Write buffer size: 131072 Byte
TOS set to 0x0 (Nagle on)
TCP window size: 128 KByte (default)
------------------------------------------------------------
[ 1] local 169.254.233.231%bridge0 port 50106 connected with 169.254.182.91 port 5001 (sock=5) (icwnd/mss/irtt=11/1448/1000) (ct=1.12 ms) on 2023-11-22 09:20:34.422 (PST)
[ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth Write/Err Rtry Cwnd/RTT(var) NetPwr
[ 1] 0.00-10.01 sec 21.3 GBytes 18.3 Gbits/sec 174329/0 3839 1749K/9000(0) us 253632

Here's a simplified version without -e enhanced output:

% iperf -c 169.254.182.91
------------------------------------------------------------
Client connecting to 169.254.182.91, TCP port 5001
TCP window size: 128 KByte (default)
------------------------------------------------------------
[ 1] local 169.254.233.231 port 50167 connected with 169.254.182.91 port 5001 (icwnd/mss/irtt=11/1448/1000)
[ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth
[ 1] 0.00-10.00 sec 21.2 GBytes 18.2 Gbits/sec

 

[etorix]

Just for sharing files, indeed!

Then go on with Xpenology, or whatever NAS appliance fits you.

that's why I thought to Thunderbolt ports... at least I can have 20Gbps bi-directional (see my other post above)

Nice report of Thunderbolt networking under Linux! But what's clear from iperf3 figures is that it is NOT a 40 Gb/s link, and the asymmetry in Mac/Linux figures is worrying. Also, there seems to be a confusion between the overall bandwidth (interface) and what is actually available to one of the encapsulated protocols.

Not sure if I can do that because Thunderbolt 4 ports (8540 chip) on my Asus Z690 Pro Art don't support the Thunderbolt bridge function under Ventura/Sonoma, am I right @CaseySJ ?

Correct. Somehow I though you had an older board and Titan Ridge…
But you could still have working Thunderbolt networking with Maple Ridge under Big Sur.
(Still, my advice is to setup a NAS with 10 GbE, or 25 GbE.)

 

[Sabzz]

Hi guys, I'm happy to tell you that I managed to get the hot plug on my Apollo Twin X working by updating the BIOS to the latest version. If anyone has the same problem with the same interface, this is probably the solution.

However, Pro Tools hasn't been working for me for a while now. Does anyone have the same problem or know what it could be due to?

In Avid Link only the Products page is shown to me, the other screens do not load. When I start Pro Tools it doesn't work, and I get a generic error message. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling, clearing the Avid Link cache, removing the plugins.

Thanks in advance.

Few questions;

What UAD version are you running?
What OS are you running?
What Thunderbolt Kext are you running?
What BIOS version?

Thanks

 

[knowwhatimsayin]

Did you update your UAD firmware? What's the latest version you're running?

I'm running version 10.2.2 on my Apollo Twin X on Monterey, no issues here.
Contemplating upgrading to version 11 that just dropped but not sure if it'll break it. As they say if ain't broke, don't fix it lol.

Interested to hear what you're running.

Twin X is Thunderbolt 3 so you shouldn't have any problems. the z690 motherboard is Thunderbolt 4 which, by the TB4 spec, is backwards compatible to TB3 devices and NOT TB2 and TB1 devices

I'm running an older Thunderbolt 2 Apollo. I just ordered a TB3 option card so hopefully that will allow me to upgrade my macOS beyond Big Sur, without upgrading my interface. But the problem then will be my TB2 satellite might not work.. wish me luck, lol ... worst case, I can just revert back to Big Sur again. So it's not the end of the world.

FYI this is all just because of PC thunderbolt ports.. I have tested the Thunderbolt 2 Apollo on a Thunderbolt 4 M1 MacBook Pro with Sonoma with a Startech TB3 to TB2 adapter. (UAD says the Apple TB3 to TB2 adapter doesn't work.) It worked flawlessly.. so that's good news for anyone wondering.