Big delay during boot

[trs96]

I should think someone with administrative access to the site would be best

No need to contact us. It's already being revised ATM. So look for the new SSD section very soon.
All the Sammy NVMe drives with TRIM issues are now removed from the list.

 

[tedyun]

I should think someone with administrative access to the site would be best, or failing that, at least one of the moderators.

It's probably a good idea to warn people of the issue, I agree, especially considering that it's been [6?] months, without any joy. Or, at least, promote the Working fine with TRIM category until a solution is found; or until the next churn of product releases.

If vit9696 and crew found this TRIM bug, you can bet your butt that the respective manufacturers knew about it too [my opinion only]. They probably considered it low risk, and shipped anyway. No big surprise there.

Poor consolation, but at least those who bought one of the affected drives should have a valid warranty claim, IMHO.

As I understand it, the TRIM implementation only rears its ugly head in our unique Hackintosh circumstances, ie., when MacOS is booting and Apple is using its proprietary TRIM process for the AFPS formatted drives. In normal circumstances, ie., when the Samsung is being used in Windows systems, it is probably not affected. There probably is no incentive for Samsung to fix up its controllers for the benefit of those trying to use their NVMe with MacOS 11+

 

[UtterDisbelief]

As I understand it, the TRIM implementation only rears its ugly head in our unique Hackintosh circumstances, ie., when MacOS is booting and Apple is using its proprietary TRIM process for the AFPS formatted drives. In normal circumstances, ie., when the Samsung is being used in Windows systems, it is probably not affected. There probably is no incentive for Samsung to fix up its controllers for the benefit of those trying to use their NVMe with MacOS 11+

Question: Does the Terminal command - sudo trimforce disable turn-off macOS trim for NVME drives?

I ask because of previous experience, although not with NMVE drives ...

In all my recent builds I do not 'enable' macOS trim. My reasoning here is that the firmware of the drives I use (Crucial SATA) has it's own 'garbage collection' and trim routines built-in and provided by the manufacturer. Whatever the OS you are using doesn't matter.

Going this route - in the face of wagging fingers and tut-tuts from some - has never caused a problem and I have drives well over 5-years old still working fine.

My thinking here is, in your scenario, with macOS trim conflicting with the firmware's own routines, can you use the Terminal command to turn-off the macOS version and does it make any difference to boot times?

(Not asking for a friend )

 

[FormerUser-400995]

... There probably is no incentive for Samsung to fix up its controllers for the benefit of those trying to use their NVMe with MacOS 11+

You mean, apart from causing their drives to be unfit for purpose?

My point is that no matter the files system(s) and Operating System(s) we use, there's a fundamental [and reasonable] expectation that the storage devices we choose to house our precious data should (at least, for the stated lifetime of the drive) be error-free; human stupidity accepted.

Regarding Samsung, so far I've seen one 980 EVO on shelves, which probably indicates the new range of drives is forthcoming [speculation]. Whether or not the issue remains, my guess is that informed members of Hackintosh communities may be more wary of the hype this time around.

 

[FormerUser-400995]

As I understand it, the TRIM implementation only rears its ugly head in our unique Hackintosh circumstances, ie., when MacOS is booting and Apple is using its proprietary TRIM process for the AFPS formatted drives. In normal circumstances, ie., when the Samsung is being used in Windows systems, it is probably not affected.

My understanding of TRIM is superficial, at best. I don't claim otherwise. However, from what I've read, the slow boot (an artifact of the TRIM issue) is mostly noticeable in Monterey. Whether or not that's strictly due to interaction with a specific Apple process, or what that process is, I can't say.

Does it only affect APFS formatted drives? Probably, from what I've read. As I understand it, the bug (the underlying cause) is with the controller software; relating to the implementation of TRIM across several brands of (NVMe) drives. I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of inconsistencies with other files systems.

I found this detailed description of TRIM and how to test whether or not it's turned on in Windows. An interesting read for the curious.

@UtterDisbelief - This seems to be more-or-less equivalent information concerning TRIM in macOS environments.

 

[FormerUser-400995]

No need to contact us. It's already being revised ATM. So look for the new SSD section very soon.
All the Sammy NVMe drives with TRIM issues are now removed from the list.

Good to know. Thanks.

 

[Bustycat]

Question: Does the Terminal command - sudo trimforce disable turn-off macOS trim for NVME drives?

I ask because of previous experience, although not with NMVE drives ...

In all my recent builds I do not 'enable' macOS trim. My reasoning here is that the firmware of the drives I use (Crucial SATA) has it's own 'garbage collection' and trim routines built-in and provided by the manufacturer. Whatever the OS you are using doesn't matter.

Going this route - in the face of wagging fingers and tut-tuts from some - has never caused a problem and I have drives well over 5-years old still working fine.

My thinking here is, in your scenario, with macOS trim conflicting with the firmware's own routines, can you use the Terminal command to turn-off the macOS version and does it make any difference to boot times?

(Not asking for a friend )

I did notice faster decaying of my Crucial MX500 without sudo trimforce enable.

 

[UtterDisbelief]

I did notice faster decaying of my Crucial MX500 without sudo trimforce enable.

Interesting.

My longest lasting is a Crucial MX100 followed by MX200. I do have MX500's now too but they are not yet in use as boot drives.

I'm still wondering if by disabling macOS trim those NVME drives might boot faster?

 

[tedyun]

Interesting.

My longest lasting is a Crucial MX100 followed by MX200. I do have MX500's now too but they are not yet in use as boot drives.

I'm still wondering if by disabling macOS trim those NVME drives might boot faster?

@UtterDisbelief --

I'm not sure, but in theory it should boot faster. With my Big Sur on my Samsung, I was enabling and disabling it from OpenCore (meaning set the TRIM timeout to maximum, a cutoff limit or disable). It was definitely slower if I didn't disable it.

 

[UtterDisbelief]

@UtterDisbelief --

I'm not sure, but in theory it should boot faster. With my Big Sur on my Samsung, I was enabling and disabling it from OpenCore (meaning set the TRIM timeout to maximum, a cutoff limit or disable). It was definitely slower if I didn't disable it.

Thanks.

Trying to be logical about it, if older Mac hardware runs Monterey without significant boot delays, then the new problems we are seeing seem to be caused by specific hackintosh SSDs, namely Samsung ones with the new Phoenix controller. When Apple updated their code for Monterey, if they aren't using Phoenix (though they often used Samsung Surface-Mount SSDs), then they wouldn't think of coding for it.

I'm still in the dark here ... It would be useful to hear from non-Samsung NVME SSD users if they have similar problems. (I may have missed that, if so apologies.. .)