Where's Apple Inc. going?

[kiyyto]

He is providing points that are well founded and logic. If people disagree, that´s fine, but don´t call someone agressive just because they´re right, and don´t fill their posts with emoticons. Einsteiniac hasn´t crossed any lines, and is the one providing the most valuable arguments and points in this points, if you have a problem with that, don´t lay that on him.

First and foremost you contradict yourself in the above quote. First you say they have a duty to make profession and updated products. Then you go on say that there was nothing wrong with the previous 17" laptop.

People like to armchair quarterback all day

- I don't really need to go on, because it is obvious, so I won't. I think that if you had anything to say about Apple then I guess you would have done that, but thanks for letting us know that he's right.

I agree with Tiuno, I thought his post aggressive, disrespectful maybe, but not really debating on the merits. Also, lol... who is filling their posts with emoticons?

What line?

Who laying on who?

Are we in the same arena?

 

[kiyyto]

There was a reason to upgrade from the 2007 MBP in 2008 dude, the penryn processors ran WAY cooler than the merom. the unibody design and ddr3 included later in 2008 was also very significant. I see the point you are making but the 2007 MBP is perhaps one of the worst examples I can think of. 2008-2010 MPB, or the Mac Pro since 2009 are great examples.

yeah, I guess dude.

If you really want to get technical it was a late 2007 MBP and I also had an early 2007 MBP. No difference whatsoever to me.
http://www.everymac.com/systems/app...yn-and-macbook-pro-santa-rosa-core-2-duo.html

But they offered nothing practical over the computer I have (had, gave to a friend).
There is a big difference between people who buy real macs and people who build hacks. Most people who are mac users aren't very interested in words like merom, penryn, nehalem, bulldozer, tegra, etc, etc. Mostly because they mean nothing at all to people who use their computers and not build them.

Nothing really has been that different since Leopard. The functionality is essentially the same. Something runs a little hotter, something runs a little cooler.
Ok, whatever. Move something from point A to point B, 64 bit, so what, no different. There have been some nice aesthetic changes, but I'm not sure how many real mac users are left in the camp these days. Yeah, I think there are real mac users and then there are the rest of you, us, them.

I wish Apple was not a luxury brand, but it is.

I hardly every hear anyone here talking about the programs. You can do pretty much the same thing on iMovie 06 as 11
And Final Cut Pro runs great on my 2007 MBP, as Final Cut X runs on my hack. There isn't much difference.

Only, now there are a ton of Android users who call everyone that uses an Apple an iSheep. And, there are a ton of people who've decided that Apple is to computers what Jimmy Choo is to shoes.

I tried to convince a friend that he'd love a used mac mini for $200. That it'd do everything he'd want and it'd be a great experience. He could not get over the fact that it had a core2duo processor and only 1GB of RAM. (gasp!)

Sad really.

People who think words like merom are important are the people who've created a cycle of buying a new iPad (with essentially the exact same user experience as the last iPad) every year. I think Apple is doing product changes too fast, to their detriment. A computer is not like a piece of clothing that goes out of style when something new comes out, but a lot of people think of it that way.

Occasionally there are reasons to upgrade, but, lol, uhm... merom to penryn wasn't one.

 

[imaj]

It's no longer the world where you release a tiny music player (i.e iPod) and the whole world loves it. To stand out, you need to be big-time different. Slight changes won't cut it. You need to be really REVOLUTIONARY. The world expects changes to their lives for the better, not to be at status quo or to reduce quality like the new Apple Maps (I think it was a failure).

I used to be an Apple fanboy, blindly following their every step and thinking that it was all good, but my stance has begun to change. Apple, this is a call to you to make yourself stand out and become the company you were in 2007.

Remember...Next year they will unveil a physical Apple T.V. That will be REVOLUTIONARY.

 

[masso912]

Well, to point this out there are many errors in this post. Firstly, Macs HAVE supported Turbo Boost since Sandy Bridge(i.e. Early 2011 Macs) and it is stated on the Apple Store specifications. It's just that unlike in Windows, you do not get a cool Dashboard or Desktop widget by Intel, to monitor the state of your CPU.

Secondly, the improvements you've pointed out in iOS 6 are the MOST visible ones. I'd say the general performance improvement is the most important. Well, all OS upgrades have this, but nevertheless, it is a point worth mentioning.

And thirdly, OpenGL 3? OS X DOES support it, at least, as of Mountain Lion. See this link:

https://developer.apple.com/library...GLMacProgGuide/opengl_intro/opengl_intro.html

1) Sorry i've recently documented on the first one. Mac has lower Temp ratio in which the turbo boos kicks off, that's why i was not getting CPU at full freq in mac osx.

2) How can you tell the improvement of a system while being a Closed-Source system? You can tell "Oh hey UI seems faster. This require less speed to load" but you don't know anything on what's going on under the skin of the S.O.
Here's an example:
I can set my device cpu to run at full speed always when the device has the display on. In this case, my UI speed and snappiness will skyrocket for sure... but inside the cpu is stressed just to render animation faster.

This is just an example, it can be related to security system or anything...

I'M NOT SAYING THAT IOS6 WASN'T IMPROVED, but when Apple tells you "We've improved the system", you can't really know for sure. You can only see what's regarding UI and Apps speed, nothing more.

3) If you pay attention, i said "Only openGL 3". There's newer version of openGL now (They were one year ago).
This is why much games on the appstore, even if native, needs a bit better specs that Windows. Graphic rutines are a little outdated and not all new feature are supported.
https://developer.apple.com/graphicsimaging/opengl/capabilities/

In wikipedia, you can see all version of openGL. Latest is 4.3.
It's sad because Linux and Windows both support the latest extension.

 

[Einsteiniac]

It's not even the app. It's the mapping data that is flawed. Completely different things.

In response to the OP:
This is also a server-side thing that can be fixed transparently. There will never be a "boom" moment where maps will suddenly be perfect. You'll just notice over time that it gets better and more reliable. There has already been plenty of progress on this front in the last few weeks. Most people that are complaining about maps have had a problem here or there or are just parroting what they've heard from others. It's not perfect, it never will be perfect but again, neither is Google Maps.

I'm not sure what specific parts of iOS itself or OS X for that matter you could consider unfinished? It seems to me like everything they announced was shipped.

As for the hardware, my iPhone 5 and my Retina 15" MBP are the best pieces of Apple equipment I've ever owned. The build quality has never been higher. I simply have no idea what could be construed as "unfinished" or shoddy quality here. You may hear about issues from early production run hardware, but this is true for *any* product from *any* manufacturer. If 3 months in any of those gripes still apply, then you have cause for real concern at the company level.

Very Very true. I will be the first to admit the data isn't ready to be called anything but Beta though. The only reason really for that is because of the very high bar google maps has set. I am interested to see how long it takes for the damage done to be righted though.

 

[Einsteiniac]

First thing of all, I want this to be a debate not and argument as the moderator pointed out. Secondly I think that what Einsteiniac said was disrespectful to me, well this is how I feel, if there's no offense in his words then there's non taken! As simple as that but I'd like to remind that not everybody has the same definition of respect and that we have to consider it whenever we are having a debate. Furthermore I believe that passionate is good, but we must be careful, but passionate is always good.

I'm glad to have feedbacks on the MacBook Pro with Retina display. Since I don't own one my opinion is merely based on what I saw of it in the store, internet and a what a friend who owns it told me. I must say that I'm glad if you believe that is a great product and I'll take a moment to revise my opinion.

Whenever I talk of unfinished OS's I'm clearly making a comparison to older and outdated version. There are many things that I'd like to point out. The newer version of OS X are working on virtual ergonomic that's great but softwares are losing features, like iMovie so many friends that work in the movie industry have told me that past versions are much better than the actual one! Also I've something that disturbs me deeply, Apple is loosing support on some particular things, Java on Xcode, Rosetta that may be the saddest of all, iWeb good for people that are not into coding their site themselves and many others. I'm sure that most of you don't care about Rosetta since newer versions of softwares tend to be better than the old ones, but you do more than work on a computer and this way I've lost the ability to play lots of my beloved old games! Plus think of all the people that can't buy softwares constantly, I've seen my father going through that. Besides we now get to have updates correcting bugs all the time! If it's not ready simply don't release it, and we can't choose, soon the new iTunes is coming out and certainly it will be a pain to go back to older versions of iTunes if you don't like it. So we end up using third party softwares because we have no freedom on what version we want to use of the bounded apps that we may love.

As far as iOS is concerned, stability is the main issue, my iPod touch that I updated to iOS 6 had some bugs never ever seen on past version of the operating system.

Apple is innovative and still great. I use my MBP and iPhone every day, I don't say they are not good, I'm concerned about what it may become. I't would be a pain to have iOS on all Apple's devices, why because they are different devices and you don't use them the same way. It's normal to expect different capabilities on different devices. I want to point out as well that the social network softwares integration is kind of scary. I've studied a bit in Cyborg Anthropology and the conclusion I can make is that this globalization is making us mostly virtual people, I don't want to come back to the 18th century but we live in a real world and it would be nice to make a difference. We have internet communicators everywhere is it a reason to make all of them social tools? I believe that we must put apart social and work tools. I want my iPhone to be social, and I want my computer to be functional and professional.

I have another question what is with the new MagSafe's design, I mean the T form factor, I believe that the past one was much better.

Another thought, it has been said that Apple is going mainstream, well is going mainstream for people who can afford it, so how is that mainstream? How is being forced to re-buy all your software being mainstream?

I'd like to receive more thoughts! Don't be shy we don't bite!

Tiuno,

As I have mentioned and now others have said as well never have I came with any intention to be disrespectful. The only thing I can think of(and please don't take offense to this) is since English isn't your first language there may be things that are not getting across as they should be. I think that is enough of beating a dead horse and will continue on with the discussion.

I am confused on what you mean by working on virtual ergonomics. Are you referring to UI design elements such as iCal and Game Center resembling real life objects? If so I agree that I am not a fan of how those apps look. Functionality of those apps however is top notch in my opinion.

The social network aspect of our life now as a whole is pretty scary. I, much like many others tend to lead two different lives though. I have my online life and my personal one and try very hard to keep them separate. I see no inherent wrong with including them in the OS however. It isn't like Apple is forcing users to use the integrations they are just providing a service for those that would like to use them. I personally love the Facebook one as it make my address book on my phone something that would take me FOREVER to do manually. The whole social aspect though and its implications on our society is a completely different topic however.

By the new magsafe adaptor do you mean how the cable is perpendicular to the laptop instead of having the cable be parallel to the laptop while charging? This is actually a throw back to the original magsafe cables. The first ones were actually that way. Then the were redesigned when the first Air came out because the cable couldn't plug in and keep the laptop flat. Now they are back to the T. This IMO is just personal preference and I see use cases for either design depending on how your cables are managed. Now what would be neat is a cable that could allow for both orientations.

My comment on Apple going mainstream means the HUGE new user base. People who have only recently become Apple users since about iPhone 3GS days. Many of these users are purely iOS users however. In my experience Apple's user base has no issues with upgrading hardware are software. As you have mentioned they are a luxury computer brand(I would however not say the same for phones or tablets.) With that comes a very affluent user base that has no qualms about dropping 3k a year on hardware and software. The transitions they have made in the OS are ones that have been a VERY long time coming. PPC has been dead since 10.5 and with it the need for Rosetta died. 32 bit Macs have died with Mountain Lion and with it the need for 32 bit software will as well. There is nothing stopping you from running an older OS on an older computer. This is how technology progresses and you don't get the mess that Windows had. Continuing support for ultra legacy items is a loosing market strategy MS now realizes that as well. As much as it sucks computers are now essentially a 5 year tops investment. All of that said in my experience I have only just begun to hear people complain about support for older Mac's. I attribute that their new found user base. Let me explain.

Since the iOS products are "main stream" meaning more or less anyone who can afford a smart phone can afford an iPhone it has made long time PC users want to experience Mac OS. Seeing as they aren't Apple's typical computer user base they usually resort to buying used Macs on Craigslist and eBay. Apple's machines have extraordinarily high resale values for similarly spec'd brands. So many people end up buying a 3-5 year old Mac and spend good money on it and unfortunately don't understand what they bought while still may be a very nice machine for certain activities it won't allow you to run the latest and greatest stuff. I think this will naturally equalize as the resale value of Mac's start to be more realistic.

Now I would also like the argue the point that in my opinion Apple isn't really a luxury brand. Now while it's true that their starting prices for hardware are higher than their competitors when 100% or as close as possible equally spec'd I think you will find the prices are very much in-line with the rest of the industry. Now Apple does however force their users to buy the best or close to the best components which is what makes the prices what they are. I think many in this community that do the same in their own builds can attest to that. Although it is tough to compare parts manufactured and sold to end users versus products manufactured by companies which are then sold to end users. There are a lot of variables to consider there thus comparing Apple to the likes of Lenovo, Sony, Samsung, etc is a better fit.

 

[Einsteiniac]

yeah, I guess dude.

If you really want to get technical it was a late 2007 MBP and I also had an early 2007 MBP. No difference whatsoever to me.
http://www.everymac.com/systems/app...yn-and-macbook-pro-santa-rosa-core-2-duo.html

But they offered nothing practical over the computer I have (had, gave to a friend).
There is a big difference between people who buy real macs and people who build hacks. Most people who are mac users aren't very interested in words like merom, penryn, nehalem, bulldozer, tegra, etc, etc. Mostly because they mean nothing at all to people who use their computers and not build them.

Nothing really has been that different since Leopard. The functionality is essentially the same. Something runs a little hotter, something runs a little cooler.
Ok, whatever. Move something from point A to point B, 64 bit, so what, no different. There have been some nice aesthetic changes, but I'm not sure how many real mac users are left in the camp these days. Yeah, I think there are real mac users and then there are the rest of you, us, them.

I wish Apple was not a luxury brand, but it is.

I hardly every hear anyone here talking about the programs. You can do pretty much the same thing on iMovie 06 as 11
And Final Cut Pro runs great on my 2007 MBP, as Final Cut X runs on my hack. There isn't much difference.

Only, now there are a ton of Android users who call everyone that uses an Apple an iSheep. And, there are a ton of people who've decided that Apple is to computers what Jimmy Choo is to shoes.

I tried to convince a friend that he'd love a used mac mini for $200. That it'd do everything he'd want and it'd be a great experience. He could not get over the fact that it had a core2duo processor and only 1GB of RAM. (gasp!)

Sad really.

People who think words like merom are important are the people who've created a cycle of buying a new iPad (with essentially the exact same user experience as the last iPad) every year. I think Apple is doing product changes too fast, to their detriment. A computer is not like a piece of clothing that goes out of style when something new comes out, but a lot of people think of it that way.

Occasionally there are reasons to upgrade, but, lol, uhm... merom to penryn wasn't one.

Kiyyto,

I would disagree with the sentiment that they are upgrading too fast and that it is unneeded. Apple has ALWAYS been criticized as the company that doesn't upgrade fast enough. When you compare Apple rev cycles with the other PC manufacturers in this industry their speed is glacial by comparison. Also technology is one of the only industries I think that truly does need constant product cycles. Not because they go out of fashion but because the technology advances so much. If you notice Apple rarely redesigns their desktops or laptops, they are usually on a 3-5 year product cycle. This is very different than say the automobile industry that by and large introduces no real changes year to year but yet there is a new model year, every year. This is a vast oversimplification as lots of manufacturers revise little bits and pieces during model year shifts and sometimes even mid-year. But as a whole the car is essentially the same lots of times for 5-7 years.

I am not quite sure what your logic is on why Apple shouldn't release new products as new technology exists. You must remember just because you may not buy the latest and greatest every year there are always buyers. And if you keep a product line stagnant while the rest of the industry is advancing then you as a company are going to die.

If doing the same thing in iMovie 6 to iMovie '11 you are referring to editing video, then yes they are very much the same program. Aside from their core functions they are VERY different however. Final Cut 7 to X is a little bit of a different beast and each has some advantages most editors I know are still using 7 though. Again it almost seems to me that you wish that technology would just stand still, I don't see why you would want that. Even though the differences can sometimes be small it is still progress and is the direction that humanity should be moving.

Technology is a very different industry than most. It isn't like wood working, welding, automobile repair, etc. In those industries, a product will last generations because the need it fills doesn't change. Computers and technology as a whole however does. You can't pull out an Atari and expect to play Crysis. Sure it may still provide enjoyment but its use case in today's world is very little.

 

[kiyyto]

Tiuno,

As I have mentioned and now others have said as well never have I came with any intention to be disrespectful. The only thing I can think of(and please don't take offense to this) is since English isn't your first language there may be things that are not getting across as they should be. I think that is enough of beating a dead horse and will continue on with the discussion.

You just come off pretty condescending, like you have some knowledge others don't. You have some good points, but seem to fill in the space with some passive aggressiveness.

I don't have any trouble understanding him or you, but I can see where he is coming from. You can make your points without commenting on his English or beating a dead horse, or armchair quarterbacks, or any of the other insinuating language. It doesn't make you argument more effective, imho.
Thanks for explaining technology to me in laymans terms so I could understand it, lol.

The programs imovie 06 and imovie 11 are NOT very different at all. If you believe that you can take out the new transitions and tell the difference between a movie made with 06 and 11 then I think you are not very experienced in that program. Same with Logic. Same with a lot of programs. Apple should stop telling the world that they've just made the greatest thing ever invented, unless they've actually done something really amazing (like the iPhone 4 was to the iPhone 3G - that was awesome).

I have no problem with Apple making incremental upgrades to its line, that is a good thing, but advertising them as the next latest and greatest thing since, "ever" is going to burn them imho. I have an iPhone 4 and an iPhone 5 so I know what I'm talking about. The user experience on both phones is EXACTLY the same. In fact, the iPhone 4 is a better built phone. It is definitely more rugged (I've dropped it on the cement more than once without an issue) and I dare say it looks better. People are actually bending the iPhone 5 in their pockets!

The very small screen real estate increase is nice, but nothing to write home about. That the phone has an a6 vs an a5 processor I could not care less about. It means nothing to my experience. Personally, I'd rather have an iPhone 4 running iOS 5.1.1 than an iPhone 5 running the same. And, I wish Apple were more interested in creating something amazing than selling a truck load of new phones to isheep year after year (first time I've ever used that phrase, ever).

I think there is good reason to wonder where Apple is headed. For all that I've enjoyed their products over the years, I really wonder where they are going. Something that a lot of old time Apple users used to say is that the investment in Apple is worth it because their products last forever. Now, I basically see that as true and the manner in which they keep old products viable (unlike android) is exemplary. I just hope that doesn't change. I hope that Apple continues to really wow us in the future with products that we didn't even know we wanted, but once we get them can't imagine living without. I do not see the iPhone 5 in that category. In my opinion, Apple is trying to play a game with its user base... they should not have released the iPad 2 until they had retina done. The iPad 2 was pointless. And now, 7 months after the new iPad they are rereleasing it with thunderbolt?

I really hope that they don't turn into a company that churns out products left and right in order to saturate every possible market niche. To me, Apple products are really amazing. I think iTunes match is incredible. I see a lot of potential in iCloud. OS X is awesome and the computer division is still my favorite and the iPhone/iPad are really nice too.

But, if they release a new iPad next week, seven months after releasing the new iPad. It is going to add to my wonder about their long term plan. If they release a new iPhone next year that does nothing to add to the user experience except to segregate the market and make people go "oooh, that's the NEW iPhone!"...

Apple products are very expensive. If we are moving to a yearly upgrade cycle with Apple, then that Apple is losing a lot of its shine to me.

 

[Tiuno]

I'd like to get the topic back to life. I've not posted anything because I got banned for not respecting the forum's rules, though it wasn't my intention.

So let's comment on the last keynote. What are your thoughts, do you think the iPad mini goes along with Apple Inc.? I have to say that I'm not totally convinced about it, but I must tell that Tim Cook is very brave, he did something that Jobs qualified as useless no matter what people is gonna say about him. The fusion drive seems great, this are the innovations I am expecting from Apple. The MBP/R seem absolutely amazing but price is quite high because of it's all flash architecture, but great. Mac Mini went trough an update and iMacs redesigned greatly redesigned.

What do you guys think of it?

 

[Tiuno]

I must admit, this WWDC blown my mind away. Apple did it's homework today. They have been creative, innovative, and smart about all that new stuff! Let's hope they really are going in the good direction and making real progress, let's hope as well they don't fall too much in the conventional marketing, and why not dream. How lovely would it be if they ever turn towards open source or even free software! No that's way too much dreaming but review a bit their licensing.