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Using HFS+ Instead of APFS for Mojave Update

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I just hope they make APFS faster. it still doesn't get performance of HFS+, even on an NVMe drive. In fact, there are certain niche situations where APFS can cause SIGNIFICANT slow down, such as files that are modified often (such as CASC file system used in all blizzard games). files that are touched and retouched SUPER often seem to create a massive about of Btree notes that make accessing that file get slower and slower over time unless you wipe the file and recreate it. HFS+ doesn't suffer nearly as bad from CASC as HFS+ (granted it's blizzards fault casc sucks so bad, but APFS makes it so much worse).
 

jaymonkey

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Thanks for your report. It seems that you will be required to do this again to keep using HFS on Mojave for any future Mojave OS updates. Will Apple change Mojave in the future updates so that it will no longer boot on HFS volumes? Please keep this updated.
@Jamesbond007,

Yes it does look like that cloning is now the only way of running Mojave (and later) on HFS+, it's not too much of a problem for me as I have a USB-C external SSD that runs at 10Gb/s so cloning MacOS to and from it is reasonable fast (about 20 mins).

I just hope they make APFS faster. it still doesn't get performance of HFS+, even on an NVMe drive. In fact, there are certain niche situations where APFS can cause SIGNIFICANT slow down, such as files that are modified often (such as CASC file system used in all blizzard games). files that are touched and retouched SUPER often seem to create a massive about of Btree notes that make accessing that file get slower and slower over time unless you wipe the file and recreate it. HFS+ doesn't suffer nearly as bad from CASC as HFS+ (granted it's blizzards fault casc sucks so bad, but APFS makes it so much worse).
@MysticalOS,

It seems that Apple are optimising APFS for their own SSD's as performance on genuine Apple hardware does seem to be improved, but its reading reports like yours that makes me not trust APFS on OEM NVMe drives such as the Samsung PM61 series that I have in my laptop.

Cheers
Jay
 
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I can confirm that HFS+ works 100% with Mojave. I have been running 10.14, 10.14.1 and now 10.14.2 on HFS+ with no errors.
My system is a multiple boot (3-4 OS's) rig run on a 250GB Samsung 970 EVO NVMe. Separate user data disk and data / backup disks.
Figured out the clone-update-restore method on my own and since one is highly encouraged to backup before any update I do not find this route cumbersome at all. If you have a separate user data disk - like I do - you only need to clone restore about 40-50GB of Boot data depending on how many apps you have installed. On a slow SSD it takes about 10 mins and having access to all your data throughout the migration you can test your system until you reach the desired functionality / stability.

Please mind update does not work with external SSD/HDD connected via USB, Thunderbold. You need to be connected to SATA, NVMe ports or Thunderbold dock either on Mac or Hackintosh.
 
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Thank you jaymonkey for discovering this method
Cloned my XPS 9350 Os Mojave 10.14.2 to an APFS formated external HD
Booted from that and erased internal SK Hynix M.2 Sata 512GB formatting it with HFS+.
Cloned back and its so much better.
To my surprise CCC asked me if I wanted to make a recovery partition witch i (off cause) answered yes to and that was somehow made.
Lower HD temp.
I hope someone will find a way to avoid conversion to APFS on future updates
 
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Get familiar with Autodmg.
https://github.com/MagerValp/AutoDMG
I´ve ben using that for several years and install procedure is at least 50 % faster.
For Mojave Just mount created dmg. and use CCC to clone to a HFS+ formatted drive (internal or external usb)
and then you have a fresh install where you (when boot from that) have the option to use Migrate Assistant or go on to create a user account.
Voila
Mojave on HFS+
For nvme drive I bought this
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Aluminum-alloy-USB3-1-to-M-2-SSD-NVME-HDD-Enclosure-NGFF-PCIE-to-Type-C/32898417233.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.25cb4c4dR3asHM
 
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I'm interested to see what peoples specific reasons for not using APFS. I read a load of negative stuff about it before I built my first hack a while back and I managed to install HS modifying the XML so it installed on HFS+

I have a samsung NVMe 960 evo as my boot drive (with HS 10.13.6 now) and my system is pretty solid. I've never had any issues with it at all and it runs as quick as I'd like it to.

I'm looking to switch up to mojave and I've been I've been considering the method described in this thread installing on a secondary APFS drive and cloning over. But part of me thinks somewhere down the line HFS+ is going to be phased out maybe not anytime soon but maybe apple software requirements etc? and it's going to be harder and harder to work around the issue?
 
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don't know this converter works or not ?

APFS to HFS+ Converter by Paragon Software (free)
 
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I am on Mojave 14.3 with HFS+ done the 3rd update with no problem at all. I have an APFS backup drive that I use for upgrades. Note the MacOS upgrade only works on SATA ports and does not on USB.
I observed no differences with HFS+ vs APFS file system in performance / speed and CCC works flawless on backing up / recovering from one to the other.
Pick whichever you want. The main difference is the APFS is a container; the system is able to dynamically resize there should be a new recovery, bootloader etc version. If you use disk image backups such as CloneZilla - like I do - you are better off with HFS+ as the boot partition is somewhat smaller and segmented.

Also mind that I have the home directory on a separate drive, so my boot drive with apps is less than 90GB
It does not matter which boot drive I boot from I always have the same home directory with latest files.

My drive set-up is:
250GB NVMe w/ 6 partitions
EFI
HFS+
Mac Recovery
Win10
Ubuntu
spare / test partition

500GB NVMe for home directory
another 250GB for boot drive mirror backup
and a 5TB for archives, disk image backup etc.
It's quite a reliable scheme and never got hit hard by a faulty system update, yep I am talking about win10...

There are million ways to skin a cat, pick the one works best for you.
 
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