Hack Pro for 4K film editing and VFX

[qwerty123]

Hmm... My system boots ridiculously fast with DSDT, so not sure why it slows your system down a bunch. For the Unibeast thing, if you restore from a clone, you need to reinstall the bootloader to the drive/partition you boot OSX from. I would also run Chameleon over Chimera. Many of the things Multibeast installs are just rebranded projects from elsewhere and they're not always the most up to date. Multibeast streamlines the process of building a hack for many people, but it also keeps them from learning many valuable things about running a system like utilizing a DSDT to one's advantage.

Found the culprit: it's the GPUSensor Kext burried within FakeSMC plugin. Deleted it, and it's working great! Mbox also runs fine! I have some questions about the GHz fluctuation now that I'm on a 3930k machine, but I'm going to start a new thread about that. Hope you can help with understanding some of that stuff.

BTW, what would be the advantage of a DSDT with a system like mine now that it is fully functional without one?

 

[kundica]

That's great! That GPU Fakesmc plugin is a pain. Glad you figured out it was the culprit.

Regarding DSDT, it just depends. Probably things you might not need like audio through HDMI or cosmetic stuff under system profile.

I'm not sure what you're asking about the Ghz. Are you wondering what's happening with the clocking of your CPU? You don't need to run at 3.2ghz. Since turbo on the 3930k is 3.8, I would set you turbo clock in bios to 38x, and allow your CPU to clock between 3.8 and 1.2(12x). You might need to adjust a few settings like EIST, but I'd just try adjusting your turbo clock at first and see if it steps correctly. CPU utilization(%) is totally different, and you don't really need to worry about that at this point. You should be able to set your turbo multiplier to 38x without changing your voltage, etc. I actually use offset voltage (-.11) to lessen the voltage of my CPU at 4.0ghz.

 

[qwerty123]

Here's the thread I started: http://www.tonymacx86.com/general-h...tep-x79-chipsets-really-means.html#post545673

I think DBP has explained it to me though...

I think I'm also going to install the latest Nvidia Mountain Lion Drivers, because even though such cards are fully supported in 10.8.2, I think the drivers can sometimes prevent some weird issues.

Does the Rampage have the single clock OC option that the Sabertooth x79 has? I think I'm going to try that... although the last time I tried it, it set my 1600mhz RAM to something like 1033mhz or something. And out of the box, the Sabertooth BIOS sets it at 1333 mhz (I'm not sure why).

 

[Marc_Ridele]

Hi everybody !!
It's been a while, because I had to lots of things to do before choosing my gear.

Qwerty, thanks for your installation guide.

And Kundica, about your previous post...

Other components. I'm looking to get a 10-bit panel and 10-bit capable card to run it for grading. I'm thinking maybe a BM Decklink, Intensity Pro, or one of the external solutions. I'm also searching for an audio solution so that I can comfortably do some of my own sound design/mixing rather than renting studio time or hiring someone. With that, I'm looking at different pci-e audio cards that work well in OSX and have balanced outputs to run some new monitors, which I also plan to get. An external breakout box is also a possibility rather than the pci-e card (I'm concerned about the internal card picking up electrical noise, etc.). I found a card I'm very much interested in, but it's impossible to find it in stock in the US. It's a German manufacture and it's even difficult to find it in stock from European vendors.

So... I'm putting a lot of money into other things as you might imagine, especially a 10-bit panel solution. I'm not looking for something perfect since most of the work I finish myself isn't bound for broadcast, but I'd like it to be somewhat close and consistent.

...I think - if you permit me to give you a small advice - that the best
and cheapest 10 bit display to buy now is the CM-170W from Flanders.
And wait the next gen of Decklink card... because XYZ instead of REC709 will be the next way to work,
and, as Flanders guys explains to me, this years BMC will surely provide new output card.
So, with those card, and a CM-170W you will be able to grade DCP like a post-house for "only" $4000 ! ; )

About audio, I have 2 questions that are slightly off-topic, even if it's important
to help me chose my motherboard, and the number of PCI slot.
So even if I'm doing post since 15 years, I'm a real sucker in sound work !!! ; D
Almost never touch that... but now I'm independent, I will need to play with that...
Softwares won't be a real problem, but, i don't know if I need some special stuff for that !!

Do I need a PCI card ? Or USB/firewire box will be better because outside of the computer and electromagnetic interference ?
And why a card ??? If the only interest of a PCI card is the ability to send audio XLR signal to the computer,
I'll don't need it, because everything will be recorded on set... and the voice over will be recorded from
an MixPre-D linked to the computer in USB... so... if you just can give me your advice......

 

[Marc_Ridele]

I also asked few questions directly to DBP by PM (because I needed very fast replies), and here is our full discussion.
I'd like to thank again DBP and each of you for your great help.
Fell free to share your point of view !





Hi DBP !
I think I almost chose my motherboard. If you permit me, here is my conclusions...
At first I wanted to take the Rampage because it seems designed for OC,
and had more space between the PCI slot, and I thought it can be better for the air cooling of all my cards.
But, after research and few question to RED and Blackmagic, they told me they think it won't change anything for their card.
And I also see that the Rampage is really useful only for high OC, so, not really my goal.
I follow your suggestion, and try to find the best between others ASUS motherboard.
The Sabertooth seems nice but has not enough PCI slot for my 4 card, so I went to the P9X79 line.
The WS seems more oriented for workstation, and I don't really see what it can give me more than a PRO or Deluxe.
Now, I had to chose between those PRO and Deluxe, and the only difference I saw are few more USB, 2x ethernet, bluetooth 3.0, and...
8 more phases for the overclocking !!

I read thousand (really, I swear !!) post about the 8 vs. 16 phases, and lots of people said it's not important except for
world record overclocking, but few others says it always better to have more phase to increase stability !!
So...... I'm fed-up and lost.......

You know what I want.... just an OC to 4,5GHz (the max I can get with NH-D14) and.... the more stable possible !! ; D
So......... what will be the best, 8 or 16 phase ? Or no difference at all for such a "small" OC ???

Personally I wouldn't be fussed about the phases.

Don't go into it thinking "I will only be able to achieve <this> speed [with an NH-D14]", or even "I will be able to achieve at least <that> speed". There are so many variables (including the specific chip you end up with). See how far you can push it. In the end the improvements for each additional 100 MHz are fairly insignificant.
BTW I've seen reports of an i7-3930k running stable with an NH-D14 at 4.7 GHz.

I made a scheme for my PCI card, and if you just can confirm me everything will be right about PCI speed...

PCI card
- blue PCI x16 - GTX680 4Gb (PCI x16)
- white PCI x8 - RED Rocket (PCI x8)
- white PCI x8 - BMC Declink (PCI x4)
- blue PCI x16 - RAID controller card (PCI x4)

Which DeckLink are you planning to get? There are x1 and x4 versions.

The Extreme 4K in PCI x4... but I'll maybe wait the release of the next Blackmagic cards with XYZ colorspace.
But, maybe those card will be in PCI x8... I'm not sure if it's possible.
And it's the same question the next RED Rocket, is it possible that those cards can be in x16 ??!
RED and Blackmagic didn't gave me real answers about that, so... just have to wait.

Unfortunately ASUS doesn't publish architecture diagrams like Gigabyte do that show us how the PCIe slots are allocated lanes. Some of the x16 slots on these boards have to share bandwidth, but it seems on the PRO like you have the option of:

two independent x1 slots (slots 2 and 6)
one independent x8 slot (slot 4 - put the Red Rocket here?)
one x16 slot (slot 1 - put the GTX 680 here?)
two x8 slots (slots 3 and 5 - put the DeckLink and RAID controller here?)

I suspect the DELUXE is the same.

Yep, I found the same specs..... 1x PCI x16 and 3x PCI x8 for my 4 PCI cards.

And about the storage, I also made a scheme to have a better idea about RAID and speed.

Storage
Intel X79 chipset
- Smoke 2013 projects folder - 1x SATA 6Gb/s - 1x Barracuda 3Tb
- CS6 projects folder - 1x SATA 6Gb/s - 1x Barracuda 3Tb
- 30 hours of R3D footage - 2x SATA 3Gb/s - RAID 0 - 2x Barracuda 3Tb
- 30 hours of R3D footage - 2x SATA 3Gb/s - RAID 0 - 2x Barracuda 3Tb

Marvell 9128 chipset
(if I understood, it's 500Mb/s bandwith max divided between 2 drives)
Boot OS / apps - 1x SATA 6Gb/s - 1x SSD 128Gb
Scratch disk for CS6 - 1x SATA 6Gb/s - 1x SSD 128Gb

External backup
- DROBO 5D - 5x 4Tb Deskstar = 14,5Tb available in special DROBO RAID 5 (72 hours of R3D footage)
- 2x USB3 drive for projects files

Fine. But it's not going to matter which port these drives are plugged into. They top out around 200 MB/s (2 Gb/s) each.

WTF ???!!!! 2Gb/s each ?????! So what's the point to buy fast SSD ????!

I was referring to the HDDs topping out around 2 Gb/s and thus being fine with SATA-II ports. SSDs should of course by preference go to SATA-III ports, although for some uses a compromise down to 3 Gb/s can be OK for SSDs.

After calculation, it appears that with a 20Gb OS + 15Gb CS6 + 3Gb Smoke + other apps,
my apps disk will just need 60 to 70Gb maximum. so do you think I will need more than a 128Gb SSD ?
The video temp folder will be on another 128Gb SSD scratch disk, but about the apps drive is there a risk
that the OS swap file or other hidden files from the CS6 apps filled it until it....explode !!! ; D

Regarding the boot disk, I have two builds which each have ~40-45 GB used on the boot drive. One is 128 GB, one is 240 GB. If you needed 80 GB of swap space (128-45) then you've probably got a bigger problem. But the OS creates temp and log files on there too, so Bad Things happen if it fills up. I'd be tempted to get a 240 or 256 GB so you don't have to worry about it.

80Gb of swap files ? For the OS ??? Because I thought if I use a scratch disk,
I'll need only 10/20Gb of swap files for OS and apps... at worse !!

In this case I can take a 256Gb SSD to have more room.... but... if not, it's just 200Gb wasted !

Exactly, if you needed 80 GB of swap your machine would be very sick. Even if you had 64 GB RAM.
It should be less, but you want to have spare so that if that big project has been running for 5 hours already and is chewing up more and more memory, you'd prefer that it was able to eventually finish rather than crash when the swap space ran out.

For "desktop" systems I've config'ed, I find 120/128 GB boot drives are more than enough, although I do need to be careful to not fill up my home folder with too much junk. I've set up things like ~/Documents to be links to other storage drives on the system. But a bit more "safety buffer" on the boot drive is cheap insurance I suppose.

Get over the fact that drive space is empty. That doesn't mean it's wasted. It's good to have free space!

About scratch disk, is 128Gb enough with CS6 ?

Which CS6?
I'm an expert in Photoshop CS6 and use InDesign CS5, but I'm not familiar with the needs of Premiere Pro CS6 or After Effects CS6.

Is the Marvell chipset fully supported on Hackintosh ?
I'm absolutely not sure if it will work, but.... I saw this thread... so I'll try to stay confident !!

I'm not sure the Marvell 9128 is supported. It's not mentioned in the documentation for the "3rd Party [e]SATA" kexts in MultiBeast. Look for any reports of people using these boards with OS X to check their experiences.
However both those P9X79 boards also have an ASM1061 controller which definitely is supported, connected to two rear eSATA ports. You can always run cables from those back inside the case to SATA drives if you needed.

So.... P9X79 PRO or Deluxe ? Or another suggestion ???
Please tell me what will be your choice (except a supermicro mobo with dual XEON !!) ???

Another possible board is the Gigabyte GA-X79-UD7, which will give:

x16 GTX 680 in slot PCIEX16_1
x8 Red Rocket in slot PCIEX16_2
x4 Decklink in slot PCIEX8_1
x4 RAID in slot PCIEX8_2
three other independent x1 slots
gigabit LAN, four USB3 ports, fourteen (!) USB2 ports
two Marvell controllers which are supported: four 6 Gb/s SATA
four 3 Gb/s and two 6 Gb/s SATA (on X79 chip)

Had you discounted this board for some other reason? I've been talking to so many people about different boards recently I may have lost track. I suspect there are a few OS X builds using this board.

Well, it's because I have a better price with a web shop, and despite they have lots of motherboards, ther is no Rampage or GA-X79-UD7.
So, after reading few reviews, I thought take the P9X79 line, and I really hope the PRO will be a good board for OSX...

About the RAM with a 3930K, do I need to use quad channel for my 64Gb ,
or 8 stick of dual channel will do exactly the same, like you said about the i7-3770K ?

You want to run the memory in quad-channel mode. To do this you need memory of the same timing/size/etc in that group of four.
When you buy a double-channel pair the manufacturer is guaranteeing to you that the sticks are exactly the same. Usually from the same batch out of the factory.
When you buy a quad-channel pack you're getting a similar guarantee. You can get two pairs and use them, you're just not getting that guarantee.

Okkkkkkk....... I'm sorry, I didn't knew..... I thought quad-channel was a special internal technology, like XMP !!
So, it's logical, I need 2x4 identical stick of RAM... so I need to buy 2x32Gb pack of RAM... right ??

Yep.

And what do you think of this RAM ?
It's quad channel, seems enough low profile for NH-D14,
and with 14900/1866 and CL9/10/9/28, it can be good about speed...
but I'm little confused about CL9, and this CL9/10/9/28 !! I'd better take a "full" CL9 ?

That Ripjaws-X quad-pack looks good. I don't think you'd notice any difference between 9-9-9-28 and 9-10-9-28: it sounds fine.

Sorry, to ak again about that, but, again, I'm very lost.... the PSU !!
Lots of people advise me to take a Corsair AX, rather than "simple" HX. Because apparently there is less "fluctuations"... ok.
But I absolutely don't understand what I have to take as voltage !!
I read again the thing you wrote about the problem to have a too big PSU, and made lots of test on this web calculator,
and at maximum it says I'll need 750W... but friend around me says if I use the CPU overclocked and GPU at max,
with all drives at full load, etc (even if we know it's impossible), I better take a 1200W directly !!!
I was confident in the eXtreme PSU calculator web site, which told me the max watt needed at full load is 718W,
so in theory, I can't go more than a 850W PSU !! (and it was excessive futurproof tests, with 10x high perf fans,
3x more PCI x8 and 2x eSATA external drive more, with the 6x internal SATA drives + 2x SSD + many USB devices !!)
I don't know if I'm clear... but the problem is surely I asked to the wrong friends, but if you can confirm me that
if this site said I'll just need 768W at max, YES I just need to take a 850W PSU, but absolutely no more !!!

(On this test I checked : highend desktop / 3930K / OC to 4,6GHz at 1,4V / 8 stick RAM DDR3 / GTX680 / 8x regular SATA (6x SATA + 2x eSATA) /
2x flash SSD / 3x PCIx8 / 4x USB devices / 9x 120mm high perf fans / 1x 140mm high perf fan)

Going for 850W in that case sounds good. Most of those calculators are actually made by companies in the business of selling PSUs, so they're not going to UNDERestimate.

Subsidiary question.... what do you think about the Corsair C70 ? I mean did you hear rally bad things about it ?
I like it because it seems resistant and not really huge, and if one day I'll use my computer on stage,
it's maybe useful... but, of course, the most important will be the temperatures, and the noise, so, if it's too bad...

I don't know. Certainly looks like a rugged transportable case.
I haven't seen one in person.

Thanks a lot !!

 

[DBP]

It's amazing how quickly info in PMs can stack up. A question here, a question there: suddenly you've got a book.
Thanks for sticking to our plan and bringing it back out to the forum where it should have been in the first place.

You've still got a bunch of open questions there, but hopefully you're getting closer to a system design now!

 

[Marc_Ridele]

suddenly you've got a book.

With all this thread, it's nearly an Encyclopædia !!!

Thanks for sticking to our plan and bringing it back out to the forum where it should have been in the first place.

Sorry again to have slightly broke the forum rules, but as I said I needed quick replies to be able to ask item availability to my shop.
And.... I must confess that DBP wasn't agree, but I threatened him to continue to make rotten jokes about overclocking if he didn't answer !!

You've still got a bunch of open questions there, but hopefully you're getting closer to a system design now!

Don't worry, I'll always have silly questions to ask !!!

But now, I think I have a very strong shopping list.

- 1x i7-3930K with overclocking
- 1x ASUS P9X79 PRO
- 2x 32GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws-X PC3-14900U CL9
- 1x Noctua NH-D14
- 6x Noctua NF-F12PWM (2x top / 2x left side / 2x bottom)
- 1x Corsair C70 Vengeance (supplied with 2x fans on front + 1x fan behind / still hesitating about T° and noise)
- 1x EVGA GTX680+ 4Gb (still hesitating with EVGA FTW+ 4Gb or EVGA Classified 4Gb)
- 1x SSD to 5.25 bay adapter
- 1x Samsung 840 250Gb for OS/apps (still hesitating with Samsung 840 PRO 256Gb)
- 1x Samsung 840 500Gb as scratch disk (still hesitating about the size needed / and about the PRO version)
- 6x Seagate Barracuda 3Tb for footage
- 1x Corsair AX860 power supply (still hesitating with Corsair AX860i)

- 3x PCI card (RED Rocket / Blackmagic Decklink Extreme / RAID controller card or audio card)
- 1x LG BE14NU40 external USB3 Bluray burner (not really sure yet, because didn't read lots of reviews about that)

Of course, if any of you have some advice or warning to give me about those gear, please do it !!

 

[DBP]

While the C70 comes with 120mm front and rear fans, if you're adding fans I would consider 140mm units. The Corsair site doesn't list all the details, but review sites tend to spell out the options for each mounting point. Because the 140mm fans spin slower for the same amount of air, they can be even quieter. I put some in lammergeier recently and am most impressed.
There aren't the same options for PWM/etc, but I don't think that's critical. Most the fans across my systems are not PWM.

I'm not sure you'll need all those fans though. With the rear exhaust and the NH-D14 those 2 top ones seem unusual, and to feed air to the GPU you probably only want one side fan down the bottom. Or maybe just the fan underneath.
Extra fans are something you can add later as required.

 

[Marc_Ridele]

Ok.... at first I thought 11 fans because of this picture, and because there will be 8 drives, overclocking and big GTX680 :
- 2x PUSH front outside 120mm (for the drives)
- 2x PUSH front inside 120mm supplied
- 2x PUSH bottom 120/140mm (but isn't better to use as PULL to send all dust directly to bottom grid ?)
- 2x PUSH side 120/140mm
- 2x PULL top 120/140mm
- 1x PULL rear 120mm supplied

QUESTIONS :
- What is the difference between "high performance fans" and "regular fans" ?
(I ask that to be able to calculate the PSU need)
- Are the NF-F12PMW considered as "high perf", or "regular" ?
- What are the best and most silent 140mm fans ?

 

[DBP]

Just because it has all those optional mounts for fans doesn't mean that you should use them all at the same time! You will end up with air not flowing to the right places.
Also that picture shows the PSU exhaust but doesn't show that we usually set them up so their intake is at the bottom bringing air in through their own dust filter in the case and not complicating the internal airflow.

there will be 8 drives, overclocking and big GTX680

Eight drives? That case has mounts for 6. Where are the other two going? If you put them up in the 5.25" bays be aware that there is little airflow up there by default. I think that's where you're looking to put the SSDs, which is a good idea.

(but isn't better to use as PULL to send all dust directly to bottom grid ?)

Dust is worth considering a bit, but don't get hung up on it. Even with a positive-pressure system (where more air is sucked in through the dust filters than is forced out the exhaust) the dust filters won't catch everything. The dust filters will catch the bigger bits, but you'll still get a build-up of fine particles inside the machine. There's also a risk with such setups that you won't get air moving freely to the required places.
Semi-regular maintenance of your machine (taking out the dust filters and washing them, and cleaning the internal heatsinks and fans ["canned air" is great for this]) will be required whatever system you design.
Some people have been experimenting (I think I saw something over in the Case Mods area) with efficient dust filters (HEPA anyone?) but these do need a fair bit of air pressure to get through which isn't going to help the noise situation.

I would start off with just:

• The internal 120mm fans drawing air across the drives.
• Maybe a 140mm at the side or at the bottom (closest to the PSU) pushing air towards the GPU.
• The NH-D14 with its fans blowing air towards the exhaust. The central 140mm fan in there hangs down and pulls some air past the board as well as the NH-D14 fins.
• The 120mm exhaust at the rear.

From there you can experiment with:

• Moving the 120mm fans from behind the drives to in front of the drives (or just adding 2 more).
  Drives typically don't need a lot of airflow though, and where they are should push some air towards the GPU.
• The effect on system and GPU temperatures between putting the 140mm fan at the bottom or at the side.
• A quieter 120mm fan at the exhaust (or just reducing the speed of the existing fan which will cut down the noise a lot).

If there are fan mounts that you're not using, I would cover them up (gaffer's tape is great for quick experiments, and sometimes ends up as part of the final solution) to ensure the air goes where you want it to.

- What is the difference between "high performance fans" and "regular fans" ?
(I ask that to be able to calculate the PSU need)

Meh. No easy answer there. Some high performance fans actually have low power requirements. They're efficient as well as powerful. But for calculating PSU requirements just add a fudge factor.

- Are the NF-F12PMW considered as "high perf", or "regular" ?

There are at least three major areas of fan performance:

• Airflow. How fast can it move air through an unobstructed opening?
• Static pressure. How good is it at pushing air past nearby obstacles (grills, radiators, hard drive cages, etc)?
• Noise. How quiet is it?

I don't think you will ever find one model which excels at all three.
Noctua have an article which discusses some of their 120mm models in this regard.

- What are the best and most silent 140mm fans ?

Best and most silent?

Every choice we make when designing our systems involves compromise. In lammergeier I'm using NF-P12 fans as a compromise between all three factors to push air past the drives, an NF-A14 ULN for the rear exhaust (my case allows 140mm there), and another for the bottom intake (I could have used the NF-A14 FLX there, but opted for the quieter unit).