€ 2500-3000 Hackintosh how PRO can it take the machine?

[YogaJedi]

Hi Boys, need to decide how to spend the money.

Options:

1: Leasing a iMac Pro (smallest) + Blackmagic Multidock + 2 x 2 TB SSDs + Backup HDs solution = €5560,- (no vat)
+: Uptodate Tech; Connectivity for fast external HD/ SSD; Can pay it over three years; good tax conditions; doesn't lose much value when new Mac Pros, silent
-: USB 3.0; Quality Monitor and GPU i don't need; got bad ratings need to ask my mom -> major suck!

2: Pimped 2009-2012 Mac Pro + same setup + Monitor = €3650,- (no vat)
+: Cheaper can afford it without mom; Firewire; Old OS X boot; modular.
-: Thundebolt, PCIe USB 3.1 cards only one port, old tech; will lose much value with new Mac Pros release; not so good tax conditions, Fan loudness

3: Hackintosh
+: Uptodate Tech; modular, fully customisable; cheaper no mom; Full PC/ Mac,
-: Setup time; Setup knowledge never even configured a PC; tax conditions but ok cause new tech.

Main reason why i wanne update is the CPU power. My Mac Pro 3.1 Geekbenches at 13500.
For Audio production i run reverb plugins that need way more CPU.
It happens also that the Mac suddenly shuts down 3 - 4 times in a row. Then everythings ok for a month & again.
Thought it's the power supply, change it, but didn't help. Who the **** knows!

What i need:

CPU: Must Geekbench around 30 - 45 k
Mainboard: Must have Thunderbolt 2/3 & USB 3.1 connections!!! PCIe 3.0, Wifi, Ethernet
Ram: min 32 GB - with upgrade options
OS X: Sierra
GPU: normal 4k
Loudness: As silent as possible!

First i wanne ask you how much money I have to invest to build a Hackintosh like I need
(without HHD or SSD storage and monitor)?

The Geekbenchbrowser gave me those CPU options @ 30 - 45 k Multicore Score: https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/multicore?page=200

What I dont understand ...
The Intel Core i9-7900X 3312 MHz (10 cores) gives me here an average score of 33138 but here it hits 48861 (for Macs).
Or the Intel Core i7-7820X 3600 MHz (8 cores) here 29705 here 37735 (for Macs). WTF!? How is this possible?

Ok let's say i have those options ...
€ 900 - Intel Core i9-7900X 3312 MHz (10 cores)
€ 500 - Intel Core i7-7820X 3600 MHz (8 cores)
Now I search for a Mainboard were those 2 bastards fit, right?

I filter those by socket and check them for Thunderbolt, DP and USB 3.1 connections and look if there are in the buyers list, ha? Come on boys help me!

RACK?
I have table racks here and im thinking about to build the Hackintosh in a Server Rack.
But when i got pissed i'm used to hit the table with the fist and through the vibrations my mac pro 3.1 immediately shuts down. I don't know if it's only my MAC or PC's in general so i'm sceptical about it. A tower maybe more clever and even more accessible for upgrades?

Storage?
What i also like to know is if its possible possible for internal storage connections to provide
600 - 700 MByte/s R/W speeds. I know PCIe > M.2 or SATA III adapters can do it but beside that?
Can I use those adapter to connect even more than 2 SSDs?

I configured a setup for a friend over Thunderbolt with 2 x 2 TB SSDs (RAID 0) in a Blackmagic Multidock and we measured those speeds. It's cool cause the Multidock is a rack solution has no fans and the speed is perfect. But the enclosure is pretty expensive and the SSDs are open. Stupid kids can pull them out.
There are cheaper solutions with fans and not in a rack.


Cheers...

 

[trs96]

If you are considering an i7-7820x why not the i7-8700K overclocked ? It's very easy to overclock these days. You'd just need to spend a little more on a better cooler that can handle the extra heat. See GB score comparisons. Graph form OC3D.net

 

[pastrychef]

I agree that overclocked i7-8700K is a great performer. Here's mine running at 5GHz.


Of the three options you've listed, I would strongly advise against option 2. What you are getting there is tech that's a decade old. They were fantastic machines, but at this point, I would not invest in something so old. Just my opinion...

What you're left with really is how willing you are to deal with the learning curve that accompanies a hackintosh. If you are willing to learn and tinker, the hackintosh option would save you a considerable amount of money. Otherwise, you'll have to pay for the convenience of plug and go.

I think that you can easily meet all your needs and stay within your budget even if you go with all premium parts for your build. The latest generation of NVMe SSDs should not have any problems getting 3000MB/s reads and over 2000MB/s writes in benchmarks. I believe all Z370 motherboards include at least two M.2 slots for NVMe SSDs.

 

[YogaJedi]

@trs96 since i don't know whats the best option i'm open to any suggestion. The numbers on the right side are the Geekbenches of those processors? I think i would rather prefer a green hitting 29k and the red going up to 45k if it's in my budget. What would be the best cooling option? Corsair H60 (Water)? It's important that the cooling doesn't get to loud.

 

[pastrychef]

@trs96 since i don't know whats the best option i'm open to any suggestion. The numbers on the right side are the Geekbenches of those processors? I think i would rather prefer a green hitting 29k and the red going up to 45k if it's in my budget. What would be the best cooling option? Corsair H60 (Water)? It's important that the cooling doesn't get to loud.

The green are single core geekbench scores. I don't know if a consumer level CPU exists that can do 29K single core in geekbench.

Red is multi-core score. If you want 45K, you would have to look for a CPU with more than 10 cores.

 

[trs96]

@trs96 since i don't know whats the best option i'm open to any suggestion. The numbers on the right side are the Geekbenches of those processors? I think i would rather prefer a green hitting 29k and the red going up to 45k if it's in my budget. What would be the best cooling option? Corsair H60 (Water)? It's important that the cooling doesn't get to loud.

The colors don't mean anything. The green bars are single core scores and red are multi-core. I'm pretty sure an overclocked 8700K can easily handle anything you throw at it in audio production unless you are doing some extreme kind of stuff. As you can tell I'm not working with audio in any kind of professional way. You can also ask those in the Music section of the forum:
https://www.tonymacx86.com/forums/music.21/

Money saved on a Z370 system can be spent on more ram which is really important in an audio recording studio hackintosh.

An 18 core i9-7980XE is the highest multicore scoring CPU you can currently buy. Not likely to get over 40K GB MC scores there.
Some 4.4 GHz overclocks of that CPU show GB scores over 50K but that is not realistic for an audio production machine. Would need too much noisy/extreme liquid cooling and use way too much electricity too. You will need to research the cooling system on your own for whichever CPU you go with. Read a lot of reviews and find out which are the quietest that can cool the 6-10 core CPU most effectively.

The price is also quite prohibitive at over 1,890 USD. Ouch ! Makes that i7-8700K selling for $329 look really impressive.

 

[YogaJedi]

@pastrychef the hole point of this thread is asking you for your honest opinion because I don't like option 2.
I once started a hackintosh with my old Dell laptop. I manged to run osx on it but somehow the audio didn't work i didn't found a solution. So i'm not a total newbie but it was pretty time consuming. For sure plug 'n play is an option cause it can save time. And time is money. So if this ends in a never ending hassle it's a fail cause i'm not into rocket science i'm into music.

This is a "from the ground up" ... so i'm optimistic
As I understood if i follow the buyer's guide and the install instructions i'm on good.

AFAIK NVMe SSDs are only bootable under High Sierra. For Sierra i need AHCI SSDs if its my system disk.
They are in a M.2 format which makes the storage more expensive. I considered to do PCIe > SATAIII 500 GB solution like
the Sonnet Tempo SSD Pro Plus or a Angel Bird Wings with a RAID 1 setup cause i already have an 500 GB SSD.
So I need a second one and will cost me together about € 300. Buying to M.2 500 GB goes over €400.
Are the NVMe on the Z370 hardware RAIDable or is it done over software?

@trs96 Thanks for the link to the musicians forum. I do music production for a long time and with 32 GB min (with upgrade options) i'm fine cause i'm currently working with 16 GB RAM. You are right you can never get enough RAM but i can put on more later.

So the cooling i've to research but first i need a CPU.

Ok, $ 1890,- is clearly over the budget and makes the i7-8700K very attractive. I guess dual processor Hackintoshs ain't an option since you don't mention it. Aren't there any processors between $329 - $1890,-.
What's with the i9-7900X 3312 MHz (10 cores)? Not good? Isn't there a trustable CPU Geeckbench list out there?

And for the Mainboard you recommend a Z370 Mainboard the one listed in the buyers guide has no USB 3.1 or Thunderbolt 3.
Can I use those? Only the Socket 1151, right? But only with the i7 they can't handle an i9, right?

Sorry guys I got no experience with this ....

 

[pastrychef]

Using a laptop for your first attempt at hackintoshing is probably a bad idea. It's much more complicated to get everything working. You shouldn't base your experiences with that on what to expect with a desktop.

I think it's safe to say that there are different degrees of success when hackintoshing. For example, you can get basic macOS functionality on a desktop fairly easily with just UniBeast/MultiBeast. But there will be things that won't work if you stop there. One example is AirPlay. In order to get that working, you would need to enable the IGPU and edit the config.plist. A person who doesn't use AirPlay may never notice that it's not enabled and believe that his/her hackintosh is working 100% like a real iMac.

That being said, everyone should expect to have to put in at least a bit of work to get all the features he/she needs working right. For example, FCPX editors need to put in additional work to enable Quick Sync to help rendering speeds or they may need additional work to get multi monitor setups working right.

For the most part, just about everything can be made to work. Among the things that I'm aware of that do not work include being able to play HD DRM content in iTunes and hot plugging of Thunderbolt devices. There may be other things that just don't work right on a hack but these are the ones I'm aware of. So, depending on the features you need, you may need to do more than just what the basic guide will provide. Fortunately, there are guides for just about everything imaginable here.

Yes, native support for NVMe SSDs on macOS didn't arrive until High Sierra. If you are determined to stay on Sierra, your options are (1) use hacks to enable NVMe SSDs or (2) use an AHCI M.2 SSD. I am using an AHCI Samsung SM951 M.2 SSD and get very good performance. Not quite as fast as the latest models but still plenty fast.

I've never used or even looked in to using a RAID solution so I can't comment on how well they work.

 

[trs96]

@YogaJedi You will need to buy a Thunderbolt add in card. Asus for an Asus motherboard, Gigabyte for a Gigabyte. None of the ATX Coffee Lake/Z370 boards have it onboard. Why don't you read through the Asus ROG Golden Build guide and determine if that build with a Th.Bolt add in card would do everything you need it to. I don't think going up to a 10 Core CPU is really worth it in your situation. X299 builds are also much more complicated to get working and to maintain. If you have no experience I wouldn't try one of those builds for your first.

 

[YogaJedi]

Boyz this are very useful informations. Thanks!
The issues with multi monitor setups, iTunes DRM Music & Thunderbolt plugging are worrying.
Before i dig in I calculate. Based on Asus ROG Golden Build i got to spend € 850 (no vat) on a basic setup like
MainBoard, CPU, Cooler, Power, Case, Hd Enclosure, Ethernet.

For a pimped Mac Pro with the same basics I pay € 1200,- from a shop refurbished (GeekB 31K) that's only € 350,- more.
That's less than I earn in a bad week. And if I realistically calculate the time i need to set up Hackintosh with my skills ...
If i'm good it's a week. So there is no big gain.

A x299 build is interesting. I read this thread How to build your own iMac Pro. The Author says:
(...) I strongly recommend to start at least with the i9-7900X, which already supports four channels DDR4-2666 and also implements 44 PCI express 3.0 lanes (...). As far as I understood your able to upgrade to any higher Skylake x CPU after the build. Very interesting. Basically what i'm seeking for.

Despite the higher investment for the basic setup, about €2400,- (no vat), wich is clearly over my cash budget if I add RAM Storage, TB, USB3.1 etc, I fully agree that this would be over my skills. I mean just look at the cooling.
If you got the time and the starting cash you can save thousands of € with this.

Boyz, guess i'm more the plug in play pussy.
Thanks for all the infos you provided. I hope this can serve as a "newbie check the possibilities" thread.
So don't mind.

Greetings
YogaJedi