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AMD vs Intel 2019 Edition

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Yes. I believe they are. For years, they had nothing to compete with Nvidia on the top end. Now, they have RDNA2 which is very competitive on the top end.
Not sure why you included an intel chart when my comment was in direct reference to my previous post that said "unless your apple" It also does not show me that they are innovative on the GPU side or the CPU side for that matter. TSMC is really the innovator and both Apple and AMD are standing on their sholders. Because let's be honest it is TSMC fabrication that is allowing Apple and AMD to beat Intel. If you threw Apple's SOC and AMD CPU on 14nm would it still be competitive?
 

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Not sure why you included an intel chart when my comment was in direct reference to my previous post that said "unless your apple" It also does not show me that they are innovative on the GPU side or the CPU side for that matter. TSMC is really the innovator and both Apple and AMD are standing on their sholders. Because let's be honest it is TSMC fabrication that is allowing Apple and AMD to beat Intel. If you threw Apple's SOC and AMD CPU on 14nm would it still be competitive?

I agree that TSMC is a huge part of Apple and AMD's success. That being said, Nvidia has tapped Samsung and is on 8nm. I don't know how much of a difference the 1nm size difference makes but I assume that it would also increase costs for Nvidia. The cost difference would make their cards even more expensive and AMD would still be competitive.

As for Apple, again, yes, TSMC plays a huge roll in the success of Apple Silicon. However, Apple is not the only ones on 5nm. Qualcomm makes a competing ARM CPU, the Snapdragon 888, which is also on 5nm. But it still trails Apple Silicon in performance.

Screen Shot 2021-01-14 at 5.26.40 AM.png

source:https://www.androidauthority.com/snapdragon-888-vs-exynos-2100-vs-apple-a14-vs-kirin-9000-1191495/

116944.png


gfxbench888b_575px.png

Source:https://www.anandtech.com/show/16325/qualcomm-discloses-snapdragon-888-benchmarks


So, yes, TSMC is very important to both Apple and AMD. However, the accomplishments of both Apple and AMD should not be discounted either.
 
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I agree that TSMC is a huge part of Apple and AMD's success. That being said, Nvidia has tapped Samsung and is on 8nm. I don't know how much of a difference the 1nm size difference makes but I assume that it would also increase costs for Nvidia. The cost difference would make their cards even more expensive and AMD would still be competitive.

As for Apple, again, yes, TSMC plays a huge roll in the success of Apple Silicon. However, Apple is not the only ones on 5nm. Qualcomm makes a competing ARM CPU, the Snapdragon 888, which is also on 5nm. But it still trails Apple Silicon in performance.


source:https://www.androidauthority.com/snapdragon-888-vs-exynos-2100-vs-apple-a14-vs-kirin-9000-1191495/

Source:https://www.anandtech.com/show/16325/qualcomm-discloses-snapdragon-888-benchmarks


So, yes, TSMC is very important to both Apple and AMD. However, the accomplishments of both Apple and AMD should not be discounted either.
How much of Apple Silicon's performance is software optimization? Apple has always been good at leveraging every last oz out of hardware through software optimization. I would be curious to see how the results on an apple chip turned out with android OS running on it. I can see Apple's accomplishments but it is hard to see AMD's because while they might be winning in the CPU market as of current intel is not offering something competitive.

Would AMD beat an Intel CPU on 10nm or 7nm? Or would AMD CPU on 14nm beat intel's current offering?

When it comes to AMD GPU they are just now competing but is it because they have done something innovative to reach that goal or is it just the improved fabrication? Samsung must have given Nvidia some kind of killer deal or TSMC is having a hard time producing with apple/AMD demands causing Nvidia to look elseware.
 

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How much of Apple Silicon's performance is software optimization? Apple has always been good at leveraging every last oz out of hardware through software optimization. I would be curious to see how the results on an apple chip turned out with android OS running on it. I can see Apple's accomplishments but it is hard to see AMD's because while they might be winning in the CPU market as of current intel is not offering something competitive.

Would AMD beat an Intel CPU on 10nm or 7nm? Or would AMD CPU on 14nm beat intel's current offering?

When it comes to AMD GPU they are just now competing but is it because they have done something innovative to reach that goal or is it just the improved fabrication? Samsung must have given Nvidia some kind of killer deal or TSMC is having a hard time producing with apple/AMD demands causing Nvidia to look elseware.

Yeah, I'm sure that somewhere down the road users will figure out how to install Android and/or Windows on Arm on Apple Silicon Macs and we will be able to see more "apples to apples" comparisons.

I believe that their decision to include everything including RAM on to a single SoC helped performance.

We can see AMD's IPC performance in both CPU and GPU from generation to generation now that they have several generations on 7nm (Radeon VII, RDNA1, RDNA2 and Zen 2, Zen 3).

From what I've read, the Samsung 8nm was considerably less expensive for Nvidia than TSMC 7nm. I also don't think Jensen saw the huge improvements from AMD coming.
 
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Yeah, I'm sure that somewhere down the road users will figure out how to install Android and/or Windows on Arm on Apple Silicon Macs and we will be able to see more "apples to apples" comparisons.

Not sure that we will ever see android/chrome on apple silicon since in all these years no one really made an effort to put android on an Iphone.

I believe that their decision to include everything including RAM on to a single SoC helped performance.
This is what was really innovative by Apple.

We can see AMD's IPC performance in both CPU and GPU from generation to generation now that they have several generations on 7nm (Radeon VII, RDNA1, RDNA2 and Zen 2, Zen 3).

From what I've read, the Samsung 8nm was considerably less expensive for Nvidia than TSMC 7nm. I also don't think Jensen saw the huge improvements from AMD coming.
Normally Nvidia is winning by around 10% with competing cards like vega 64 and 1080. There was not even an attempt to compete with 5000 series cards VS 2000 series cards. It is possible that the use of 8nm and using Samsung as a foundry allowed AMD to close that 10% gap with competing cards 6900xt vs 3080 to 6% but Nvidia still is the wining not to mention you can not even get a 6900xt right now. I guess innovation to me is something that totally stands out like ray tracing from Nvidia not that it was a huge innovation.
 

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Not sure that we will ever see android/chrome on apple silicon since in all these years no one really made an effort to put android on an Iphone.


This is what was really innovative by Apple.


Normally Nvidia is winning by around 10% with competing cards like vega 64 and 1080. There was not even an attempt to compete with 5000 series cards VS 2000 series cards. It is possible that the use of 8nm and using Samsung as a foundry allowed AMD to close that 10% gap with competing cards 6900xt vs 3080 to 6% but Nvidia still is the wining not to mention you can not even get a 6900xt right now. I guess innovation to me is something that totally stands out like ray tracing from Nvidia not that it was a huge innovation.

It doesn't really work very well, but there's working being done...

Apple made ARM CPUs are outperforming offerings from Samsung or Qualcomm. This has been true of the CPUs used in iPhones and iPads for years. Samsung and Qualcomm can all try and utilize the same techniques Apple employed in future CPUs. We will see if Apple can maintain the lead.

All the high end video cards are hard to come by right now. The benchmarks I've seen of 6900 XT vs 3080 show 6900 XT winning in most games but given the higher cost of the 6900 XT, I'd say it's an Nvidia win. Still, the improvements from RDNA 1 to RDNA 2 are huge and both are on 7nm. I consider it a win for AMD simply to have something competitive at the high end.
 
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It doesn't really work very well, but there's working being done...
The blurb that shows up in the preview more or less confirms part of my theory that apple leverages every OZ of hardware via software optimization.

Apple made ARM CPUs are outperforming offerings from Samsung or Qualcomm. This has been true of the CPUs used in iPhones and iPads for years. Samsung and Qualcomm can all try and utilize the same techniques Apple employed in future CPUs. We will see if Apple can maintain the lead.
I would like to totally believe this but I still think it has a lot to do with software optimization. Samsung runs android and as we all know Android runs on everything but is optimized for nothing.

All the high end video cards are hard to come by right now. The benchmarks I've seen of 6900 XT vs 3080 show 6900 XT winning in most games but given the higher cost of the 6900 XT, I'd say it's an Nvidia win. Still, the improvements from RDNA 1 to RDNA 2 are huge and both are on 7nm. I consider it a win for AMD simply to have something competitive at the high end.
I am not saying that it is not a win for AMD to be at least at the competitive level, only that I consider it more refinement and less inovation.
 

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The blurb that shows up in the preview more or less confirms part of my theory that apple leverages every OZ of hardware via software optimization.


I would like to totally believe this but I still think it has a lot to do with software optimization. Samsung runs android and as we all know Android runs on everything but is optimized for nothing.


I am not saying that it is not a win for AMD to be at least at the competitive level, only that I consider it more refinement and less inovation.

There's no question that the tight control and integration of Apple made CPUs running on Apple made operating systems will offer unparalleled optimizations but, after being in existence for over a decade, I'm sure Samsung and Qualcomm have also made optimizations in their CPUs to run better on Android. This is especially true for Samsung who also makes phones themselves.

Maybe Zen 2 to Zen 3 is more refinement than innovation, but I think that the performance improvements from AMD 5000 series to 6000 series GPUs to more than just refinements.

 
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Fps, fps, fps... doesn't anyone care about power consumption? Don't know about others, but I can't see any difference between comparisons of RX 580 vs. 5700XT. Don't want a GPU that causes lights to dim and a hurricane from its fans.
 
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