Apple Reveals macOS Sierra at WWDC - Available Fall 2016

[nutjob]

I'm not a developer, so just asking:
Isn't this kind of impossible or very impractical for Apple to tight down the security so much, that only signed apps can run?

How can developers write new apps if the apps aren't signed yet?
There has to be a developer switch in the OS to run unsigned apps for testing purposes, no?

Nope, you just sign as part of the compile. They could pop it into the compiler if they wanted to.

Apple can make the OS very right indeed. We may well be able to defeat the measures, but it just makes everything a little more painful, more hacked together and less reliable.

 

[EV.forever]

Am I the only one that doesn't see an issue with the requirement to have all apps signed?

1. You can install unsigned apps, you just need to hold ctrl when you right click the app the first time.
2. As a developer, you can sign apps easily, you just need to get a developer account to get signatures that is verified by Apple. With said signature you can distribute said app outside the app store (or even on the app store, different type of signature though).

Am I missing anything?

Many old applications will never have signed code, because the developers have long since moved on to other things. It's the classic debate, right? When OS X did away with Rosetta in 10.7, all of those PowerPC applications were useless. This is significantly worse, I would argue, because "macOS" is now following the trend of a walled garden controlled by Apple.

Linux becomes more appealing all the time.

 

[XQC]

Nope, you just sign as part of the compile. They could pop it into the compiler if they wanted to.

Apple can make the OS very right indeed. We may well be able to defeat the measures, but it just makes everything a little more painful, more hacked together and less reliable.

Ok thanks for the clarification.

Well, since Apple didn't make any serious moves against the Hackintosh community in the past, I trust that there won't be severe issues for macOS. They make their money with hardware after all and it's questionable how much manpower they are willing to invest to secure their basically free OS for a very small user base.

 

[ppcnostalgic]

Linux becomes more appealing all the time.

You're right, but Linux has too many distros and applications they have bugs and they crash.....
BTW I installed Sierra on my old X58 motherboard on a spare ssd and it works, 4k monitor runs ok with GTX760 and default drivers.

 

[jaymack]

You're right, but Linux has too many distros and applications they have bugs and they crash.....
BTW I installed Sierra on my old X58 motherboard on a spare ssd and it works, 4k monitor runs ok with GTX760 and default drivers.

Using Enoch, or Clover?

 

[VioletDragon]

You're right, but Linux has too many distros and applications they have bugs and they crash.....
BTW I installed Sierra on my old X58 motherboard on a spare ssd and it works, 4k monitor runs ok with GTX760 and default drivers.

Installed it also. Works perfect fine

 

[nutjob]

Ok thanks for the clarification.

Well, since Apple didn't make any serious moves against the Hackintosh community in the past, I trust that there won't be severe issues for macOS. They make their money with hardware after all and it's questionable how much manpower they are willing to invest to secure their basically free OS for a very small user base.

I'm not so much worried about Apple taking action against Hackintoshes, but rather wanting to control every aspect of the OS as is their wont. If they stop viewing Hackintoshists as a bunch of enthusiasts and start viewing us as a security or marketing risk, then we might be in trouble.

 

[phrozenb]

Yeah the bit where the signature facility ToS forbid you writing something like Multibeast, then the bit where Apple decides they don't like your apps and deny or revoke your signatures, then the bit where all apps must be approved and most fun things are forbidden.

Of course you'll tell me my tinfoil hat is on too tight. I mean Apple would never do that with an OS, right?

The ToS of any OS X release already forbids you to install it on a non apple device (as in Hackintosh). So the ToS debate is mute since we're all breaking that already.

Also, you are comparing apples (pun intended) to oranges.

There are 2 type of signatures. The ones that you use to distribute apps on App Store, which Apple does verify (not as thoroughly as some might think), and ones that you use to sign the apps you distribute outside the App Store. Apple doesn't give a crap about those, unless they get many complaints about data theft and what not.

In an app signed with a signature for distributing outside the App Store (like through this site), Apple does not checkups on what APIs you use, so you can go wild.

The only minor downside of having an Apple developer account, is that it costs $100 per year.

 

[nutjob]

The ToS of any OS X release already forbids you to install it on a non apple device (as in Hackintosh). So the ToS debate is mute since we're all breaking that already.

Also, you are comparing apples (pun intended) to oranges.

There are 2 type of signatures. The ones that you use to distribute apps on App Store, which Apple does verify (not as thoroughly as some might think), and ones that you use to sign the apps you distribute outside the App Store. Apple doesn't give a crap about those, unless they get many complaints about data theft and what not.

In an app signed with a signature for distributing outside the App Store (like through this site), Apple does not checkups on what APIs you use, so you can go wild.

The only minor downside of having an Apple developer account, is that it costs $100 per year.

You're missing the point. If tonymac compiles, signs, and distributes an application in breach of the terms he agreed to, Apple can revoke his key and the software no longer works. They might also sue him, but probably not becuase they've disabled the software. So no more legitimate tonymac software.

Currently tonymac (very likely) isn't breaking any laws since his work is (very likely) covered under the DMCA and it is us, the users of his work, who are breaking the terms we agree to when we install the OS. So tonymac can distribute his software as much as he likes.

And of course I'm not talking about what Apple is doing now, I'm talking about the direction they are going in, and their proclivities, which suggest they will go much further along this path.

 

[AlphaFox]

If you sign your app and are distributing it outside of the app store, apple doesnt really care what you do (unless is something real bad most likley) and should not interfere with the app or the signature. it probably is not going to be a big deal if they force app signatures.