Z790 Chipset & Raptor Lake

[helmutschneider]

I'm testing out the ASRock Z790 PG-ITX/TB4 and it boots successfully with a Z690-like opencore config and appears to be stable. However, I am having annoying ethernet issues (similar to @ramazarusx on the ProArt) where it just won't detect the ethernet cable. The chip is an Intel Killer E3100X, also known as i225-K rev 2, and appears to be supported by the native AppleEthernetE1000 driver. On Linux it uses the same driver as the other i225-family controllers. Any ideas?

 

[Pin3ro]

I just build a Z790 creator, i'm testing the thunderbolt, and everything is working fine with thunderbolt 3 devices, hotplug.. but it isn't with an old Lacie Thunderbolt 2 with the thunderbolt 3 adapter from apple, did someone has the same issue?

 

[CaseySJ]

I just build a Z790 creator, i'm testing the thunderbolt, and everything is working fine with thunderbolt 3 devices, hotplug.. but it isn't with an old Lacie Thunderbolt 2 with the thunderbolt 3 adapter from apple, did someone has the same issue?

Good question. If you look at this post that lists a number of devices that work only when Thunderbolt Bus is enabled, we have a LaCie entry at the bottom:

So if anyone has a LaCie Thunderbolt drive with TB2-to-TB3 adapter cable, please let us know (a) if it works and (b) if your Thunderbolt firmware is flashed or original.

 

[Sabzz]

So if anyone has a LaCie Thunderbolt drive with TB2-to-TB3 adapter cable, please let us know (a) if it works and (b) if your Thunderbolt firmware is flashed or original.

Tried the following..

Connected Lacie Thunderbolt drive with Apple TB2->TB3 adapter in port 1 using version SSDT-MAPLE-RIDGE-RP05-V1B.aml, cold boot, no device detected (not even flashing LED on drive).
- UAD Apollo TB3 Device Connected in port 2 - on and working. (for reference)

Connected Lacie Thunderbolt drive with Apple TB2->TB3 adapter in port 1 using version SSDT-MAPLE-RIDGE-RP05-V2.aml, cold boot, same result.
- UAD Apollo TB3 Device Connected in port 2 - on and working.
Slept then woke the machine to activate spoof, Thunderbolt controller disabled (i know this because my UAD Apollo Twin X (TB3) says "Connect UA Device" when it would normally reconnect).

Note: During my extensive Thunderbolt testing a few weeks ago (trying to connect my Apollo Twin MK2 (TB2 device) before purchasing the TB3 variant), i found when using the Apple TB2->TB3, and Startech TBT3TBTADAP adapter, in both Windows 11 and MacOS, the Thunderbolt controller would disable itself if the device was plugged in and powered on from a cold boot. They also caused sleep/shutdown issues.. As the machine enters sleep or shuts down, it would switch back on immediately after? As if the adapters wouldn't allow it to power down? Happened even when the TB controller was disabled.

Are these boards just not meant for any of these adapters?

Original Firmware
Apple Adapter model: A1790
Tested on both Big Sur 11.7.2 & Monterey 12.6.2
NVM 38.0
Intel Thunderbolt Driver: 1.41.1340

 

[CaseySJ]

@Sabzz,

Very helpful information.

All:

• The most compatible option for Thunderbolt on Z690/Z790 is a flashed Gigabyte GC-Titan Ridge.

 

[zipb]

@Sabzz,

Very helpful information.

All:

• The most compatible option for Thunderbolt on Z690/Z790 is a flashed Gigabyte GC-Titan Ridge.

But then you will lose a PCIe slot. Most Z790 have only 3 PCIe slots. You need one for a GPU, one for TB, one for proper WIFI/Bluetooth, and that's it. I actually need at least 2 extra slots for UAD and 10 GbE.



Still on the fence for a Z790 upgrade with a 13900k and DDR5. 5 PCie slots, 3 NVME, working 10 GbE, WIFI/Bluetooth, TB.

 

[CaseySJ]

But then you will lose a PCIe slot. Most Z790 have only 3 PCIe slots. You need one for a GPU, one for TB, one for proper WIFI/Bluetooth, and that's it. I actually need at least 2 extra slots for UAD and 10 GbE.



Still on the fence for a Z790 upgrade with a 13900k and DDR5. 5 PCie slots, 3 NVME, working 10 GbE, WIFI/Bluetooth, TB.

If one's Thunderbolt devices work with the built-in Thunderbolt controller, then there's nothing more to worry about.

But if one's Thunderbolt devices don't work with the built-in controller, then the most compatible option is a flashed Gigabyte GC-Titan Ridge.

Context is key.

Incidentally, we can always replace built-in Intel WiFi/BT module with a Fenvi BCM94360NG and thus save a PCIe slot.

 

[etorix]

But then you will lose a PCIe slot.

A Thundebolt controller is a PCIe 3.0x4 device.
A 10 GbE NIC is a PCIe 3.0x4 (Aquantia) or x8 device (typical server NIC).
These need lanes anyway.

Most Z790 have only 3 PCIe slots. You need one for a GPU, one for TB, one for proper WIFI/Bluetooth, and that's it. I actually need at least 2 extra slots for UAD and 10 GbE.

In all fairness, these are your own very specific requirements. Not everyone needs Thunderbolt. Not everyone needs 10 GbE. Not everyone needs WiFi/BT. Few need to plug an Apollo card.
You want them all, and that's more I/O than manufacturers care to provide—with the added complication that some of this I/O (namely Thunderbolt, or X710 NIC) may be too new to be supported by macOS and useful to you if provided on-board.

Still on the fence for a Z790 upgrade with a 13900k and DDR5. 5 PCie slots, 3 NVME, working 10 GbE, WIFI/Bluetooth, TB.

Compared with the previous time we had this conversation you've raised the bar with 3*NVMe on top of the 5*PCIe slots.

X299/C422 and C621(A) boards have plenty of PCIe lanes (and memory channels), but I understand that you also seek maximal single-threaded performance for audio rather than multi-threaded excellence. (Which raises the question whether the 13900K is really the best CPU for your use case…)

You can actually have that much I/O in a consumer platform for high-clock CPUs with older generations: AsRock W480 Creator and Z490 Aqua have all the slots you want (5*PCIe + 3*M.2) with Thunderbolt 3 and 10GbE Aquantia already on-board! But maybe Comet Lake is not enough of an upgrade over your i9-9900K, or the extra bandwidth of DDR5 is part of the requirements.

Well, I've found a LGA1700 motherboard for you: Asus Pro WS W680-ACE.
2x PCIe 5.0 x16 (1x x16, 1x x8) => GPU, 10 GbE NIC (and dual i225 on-board)
2x PCIe 3.0 x16 (x4) => Thunderbolt, UAD or WiFi/BT
1x PCIe 3.0 x1 => UAD or WiFi/BT… if the CNVi slot cannot take a suitable module
2x M.2/M-Key (PCIe 4.0 x4, 2280/2260/2242), 1x M.2/M-Key (PCIe 4.0 x4, 22110/2280/2260/2242)
It's not Z790 (there will be no W780 anyway, and W790 is something completely different) but it will take a 13th generation Core and DDR5.

 

[zipb]

A Thundebolt controller is a PCIe 3.0x4 device.
A 10 GbE NIC is a PCIe 3.0x4 (Aquantia) or x8 device (typical server NIC).
These need lanes anyway.


In all fairness, these are your own very specific requirements. Not everyone needs Thunderbolt. Not everyone needs 10 GbE. Not everyone needs WiFi/BT. Few need to plug an Apollo card.
You want them all, and that's more I/O than manufacturers care to provide—with the added complication that some of this I/O (namely Thunderbolt, or X710 NIC) may be too new to be supported by macOS and useful to you if provided on-board.


Compared with the previous time we had this conversation you've raised the bar with 3*NVMe on top of the 5*PCIe slots.

X299/C422 and C621(A) boards have plenty of PCIe lanes (and memory channels), but I understand that you also seek maximal single-threaded performance for audio rather than multi-threaded excellence. (Which raises the question whether the 13900K is really the best CPU for your use case…)

You can actually have that much I/O in a consumer platform for high-clock CPUs with older generations: AsRock W480 Creator and Z490 Aqua have all the slots you want (5*PCIe + 3*M.2) with Thunderbolt 3 and 10GbE Aquantia already on-board! But maybe Comet Lake is not enough of an upgrade over your i9-9900K, or the extra bandwidth of DDR5 is part of the requirements.

Well, I've found a LGA1700 motherboard for you: Asus Pro WS W680-ACE.
2x PCIe 5.0 x16 (1x x16, 1x x8) => GPU, 10 GbE NIC (and dual i225 on-board)
2x PCIe 3.0 x16 (x4) => Thunderbolt, UAD or WiFi/BT
1x PCIe 3.0 x1 => UAD or WiFi/BT… if the CNVi slot cannot take a suitable module
2x M.2/M-Key (PCIe 4.0 x4, 2280/2260/2242), 1x M.2/M-Key (PCIe 4.0 x4, 22110/2280/2260/2242)
It's not Z790 (there will be no W780 anyway, and W790 is something completely different) but it will take a 13th generation Core and DDR5.

Thanks for the tip. I just checked, apparently no one has built a Hack with this(W680-ACE) mobo unfortunately. Risky.

 

[etorix]

Thanks for the tip. I just checked, apparently no one has built a Hack with this(W680-ACE) mobo unfortunately. Risky.

Of course. This is a very new motherboard, and few look at the corporate/server/workstation Qx70/C2x2/C2x6/Wx80 chipsets ('x' being the generation counter) for buying motherboards—although there's a sizeable community of happy users of 'Q' chipsets in Dell Optiplex and similar pre-builds.
W680 is Z690 with support for ECC memory and Intel vPro for remote management, but without overclocking features. Or Q670 with ECC support.
The motherboard design is obviously a variation on the Z690 and Z790 ProArt. I suspect that the three siblings also share most of their BIOS code. And I suspect that the WS W680-ACE is a relatively easy hack: Take the latest EFI for the Z690 ProArt by @CaseySJ, remove the parts which deal with Thunderbolt, WiFi/BT and AQC113, remove the USB map and make your own (the back panel is different so there's no escaping this), and check the native DMAR. Should be done…

I cannot guarantee that it will indeed be as straightforward as outlined, but nothing else comes closer to your extensive list of requirements.