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YAMC - Yet Another Mac Classic

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Jun 22, 2015
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Motherboard
Toshiba Satellite S50-B-14X
CPU
i5-5200u
Graphics
HD 5500 / Radeon R7 M260 (1920x1080)
Mac
  1. MacBook Pro
Classic Mac
  1. Classic
Mobile Phone
  1. iOS
I am planning on doing my first classic conversion and I am writing this post primarliy to help me crystallise my thought. Feedback will be most welcome. My idea is that these beautiful machines should be useful once more. That is the only way they will be preserved outside of museums and private collections and they were made to be used, not to be looked at. Now, I realize that doing a hackintosh would evict all the old HW, and that is ironic given that my goal is to preserve, but if I use a non-working donor unit then I won't feel so bad about that. :angel:

I would like something classy (in the old classic sense) to sit and look pretty, but also be useful, in the livingroom. I have seen a number of Mac Classic, SE/30, 128K etc. ipad stands and full conversions, but nothing is quite the way I like it. My main objection is that the screen should be both high quality and fit the case very well. Here is my proposed HW list:

* Macintosh Classic (II) or SE/30 case
* ASUS Mini ITX DDR3 1600 LGA 1150 Motherboard Q87T/CSM
* Rosewill 80mm Sleeve Low Profile CPU Cooler RCX-Z775-LP Black
* Pair Laptop Wireless Mini PCI PCI-E Internal Antenna
* Atheros Ar9285 Ar5b195 Half Mini Pci-e Wireless Wlan Wifi + Bt Bluetooth Card Module 802.11b/g/n
* ATX power/reset switch and LED
* Intel i3/i5 Haswell CPU TDP < 65W.
* FSP Group Mini ITX / 19V DC 150W Power Adapter
* Crucial 8GB Single DDR3 1600 MT/s (PC3-12800) CL11 SODIMM 204-Pin 1.35V/1.5V Notebook Memory CT102464BF160B
* Panasonic UJ-265 Slim 6X Blu-ray Writer SATA Slot Load
* Replacement panel for iPad Mini Retina OR Kindle Fire HD 8.9"

Preferably I would get just the Mac Classic case or with broken hardware. I would not want to kill a working unit, particularly not an SE/30 model which is much rarer than the Classic. I chose these two models because I like the case colour better than the older ones. The Classic is sleeker but the SE/30 has that nice grilled front which can hide speakers, LEDs and various buttons, perhaps even a slot loading BD drive. If I chose the SE/30 I would definitely connect the old HDD activity LED to the new MB, or replace it if necessary. I don't know for sure that the old LED would be compatible with the new mainboard, but it is quite possible. AFAIK the Classic did not have such an LED and that is a shame, but not critical.

I chose this mainboard because it has a combined LVDS/eDP port for connecting an HD LCD panel, mSATA for SSD, mPCIE for wireless and it supports the most modern CPUs. It also has external DP connector for hooking up an external HD+ monitor, all the way to 4096 x 2160 @ 24 Hz / 3840 x 2160 @ 60 Hz. I already have an old 250G SATA3 drive from a dead Macbook Pro, which I am thinking of using. I might also buy a new mSATA 120G SSD drive if I feel like I can afford that.

The LCD panel is still a bit of an open question. I have been thinking of an iPad Retina display, but it seems to me that it is a little too large (9.7") for the 9" opening in the case. The good thing about that panel is that it has an eDP interface. I could go for the iPad Mini Retina panel instead. That is only 7.9" and should fit easily, but it would leave black borders around the display. In a sense that is preferable since it would more closely mimick the original, but I would also like to maximise the screen size since it is already quite small. I also don't know for sure that the mini panel has an eDP interface, but it seems likely that it does. An alternative is the panel from a Kindle Fire HD 8.9, which unsurprisingly has an 8.9" panel. That should fit like a glove. I am unsure about the interface, but from what I can tell it is a 40 pin connector which is either eDP or LVDS. Given the high resolution it seems likely that it is eDP as I have not seen LVDS supporting more than 1920x1200 but either should work as long as it fits the connector on the mainboard. If it does not fit I might have to get creative with a soldering iron which I was hoping to avoid due to the amount of time it would require and the lower chance of success.

I picked the WIFI card for compatibility and low cost. I could go for an AC card, but my wifi router only does N so I will save ~20 bucks by going for the cheaper card.

To cut costs I am thinking of going for an i3-41xx model (TDP 54W). This can of course be upgraded later, but it is key to keep the TDP down because this case does not have large vents for effective cooling. There is a vent on the back which should be large enough to mount a 40mm fan, but that is more or less it. It needs to be a silent fan since this will live in the livingroom, not the garage. The i3-4130T even has 35W TDP, but it suffers in graphics performance and since I am not planning on adding a graphics card this may be an issue.

My goal is to make as little modification to the actual case as possible. I would try to reuse the original CRT glass front as well as the original port layout in the back. The mainboard would be mounted internally, i.e. none of the ports should stick out the back. This is because the layout of the ports don't match and I don't want to cut a hole in the back to match the I/O shield of the mainboard. I would have to use port extenders and mount them to match the original holes. Unused port holes would be covered by a cardboard or plastic sheet on the inside of the case to look like the original.

The PSU would be internally mounted and connected to the original power port. For the power switch I have two ideas. My preferred option is to leave the original power switch and modify it internally to work like a modern ATX style switch. This would mean mounting a new momentary switch on the inside and let it function as a spring for the old switch, turning that into a momentary switch. Not the easiest way, but it should be doable. My backup solution would be to remove the old switch and mount another port there, e.g. an ethernet port. I would then mount the new momentary switch in a non-visible area. I could do this by drilling a small hole under the lip on the front of the case and mount the switch there. These switches come without the button as that usually follows the case. Since the switch would be hidden from view I don't have a problem just leaving it as is, i.e. without a button to cover the switch. The hole would be made just large enough to let the head of the switch poke through. Not the cleanest solution, but it should be much easier than modifying the original switch.

The DVD/BD unit should be mounted in front, where the FDD or HDD used to be. The SE/30 has the advantage of the front grille which may perhaps be coerced into accepting a disc slot in between, but I am not sure. The alternative would be to very carefully widen the floppy slot so that it is wide enough for the DVD/BD discs. I am not decided on this as I would prefer not to alter the front at all. One alternative is to cut a slot in an area which is not visible, say under the lip. On the other hand it would be cool to insert the disc where the old floppy drive was. I would have to find a way to make it look original though. If I don't use the floppy slot for a DVD/BD drive then I may be able to use it to mount front USB ports.

I am also undecided on the keyboard. I have this image in my head of using the original ADB keyboard which came with the Classic. There are adaptors which lets you use them with USB, and mounting such an adaptor on the inside so that it appears like any other port should not be a major issue. These cases don't have the ADB port in the front, so it would have to be a rear mount. The alternative is to go for the ultra sleek wireless BT keyboards which are used with the modern macs. The great thing about the latter is both that it is wireless and also that it comes in non-US keyboard layouts.

For the speakers I have not arrived at any conclusion yet, but I want something with better quality than the bog standard laptop speakers. The space in the case should be sufficient to do something nice. Suggestions are welcome.

So please do tell me if I am nuts, or help me with suggestions for making this project a success!
 
UPDATE: I have discovered that the Classic II has two momentary switches towards the rear of the left hand side panel, a reset and an interrupt (for launching the debugger apparently). This is just what I need to implement the ATX style momentary power and reset buttons. I will leave the rocker power switch in the back as it is, a fully functional hard power switch which will break the power to the PSU inside. It is not necessary, but I prefer to leave the switch in place and functional rather than replace it with something else. Now I need to go hunt a suitable Classic II donor unit.
 
I finally found a Classic II unit on ebay which I was able to buy. I had to bid on quite a few before I got one within my budget. It arrived two days ago, and I gave the unit a quick clean inside and out. The outside is badly yellowed but otherwise in good condition. Later on I will try to restore the outside to its original grey colour, but that is not a priority at the moment. The inside was not very dirty and all the components looked in very good order. In fact, their condition appeared to be so good that I had trouble believing that this is a non-working unit.

Someone had previously disconnected all the cables and removed the hard drive and superdrive, but thinking that none of those are required for a functioning system I connected the cables back in their proper place and turned the unit on. Nothing. After some research I tried the already well tested method of washing the logic board in soapy water using an old toothbrush (remembering to remove the PROM backup battery first). The idea is that any electrolytic liquid leaked from old capacitors would be washed off and allow the board to function again. Yes, I know, even if it works after cleaning it probably means that one or more capacitors are bad and need replacing. It is still worth doing to prove that the board is working before proceeding with further repairs.

After the logic board had been washed I put it back in its place, connected the power/analog cable and turned it on. I got the startup chime and a grey background on the screen. Success! At least partial success; remember that there is no boot device attached.

Now, I seem to remember that the Classic and Classic II had a boot disk in ROM, accessible by Command-Option-x-o. I just need to get an ADB keyboard to test it out.

Why am I even bothering? Because I don't want to gut a working unit. The Classic II might not be as collectible as an SE/30, but it is still a classic (with lowercase c) computer, and I refuse to destroy one. If I can get it working it will mean having some fun and brushing up on some old and nearly forgotten skills, and if I cannot get it working the keyboard will not be wasted as I was planning on using it as a USB keyboard for the hackintosh anyway.

Back to ebay for some more cut-price bidding!
 
I am very interested in your project and intend to follow your progress.

I am concerned with integration issues with LVDS/eDP ports and the LCD panel that you choose. Do you have experience with video panel bring up?



Anyway, good modding,
neil
 
I am very interested in your project and intend to follow your progress.

Thanks. It is always good to get some feedback, particularly since this is my first project for more than 20 years. I did graduate with a bachelor in electronics 15 years ago, but my skills are somewhat rusty.

I am concerned with integration issues with LVDS/eDP ports and the LCD panel that you choose. Do you have experience with video panel bring up?

No, I do not have experience, but I have done extensive reading on the subject. I was thinking to follow the example of EmerytHacks and use the iPad retina LP097QX1-SPA1 LCD panel (eDP connector). I would use an ASUS Q87T/CSM motherboard as it has an external DP port and an internal LVDS/eDP port (switchable by jumper). I have been searching for alternatives, but I cannot find another combination that provides that kind of resolution for less money.

As I see it I have two options: 1) follow EmerytHacks' DP to eDP conversion or 2) connect directly from the eDP port on the MB to the LCD. If I am reading the Q87T/CSM specifications correctly then it does have internal headers for driving the LCD backlights, but I suspect further investigations are required. In any event there is some uncertainty in finding/making the right cabling, both for the eDP port and for the backlights.
 
Hummm… The EmertyHacks page does make a point that eDP should be doable and work for your project.

If you proceed, please document the project with plenty of photos and descriptions of this tech.

Good modding,
neil
 
I have done some more research on the display, and it seems it is using a 51-pin connector.

http://mikesmods.com/mm-wp/?p=16

The chosen motherboard is capable of driving the backlights, but the eDP connector on the MB is 40-pin. That means that if I want to go that route, then I will have to make a small PCB for routing the required signals/ground/vcc/backlight from the MB to the correct pins on the panel's connector. Of course this can be done, but I am not overly keen. I also have not been able to find any pin-out specification for the 40-pin connector.

There are alternatives though. EmerytHacks' solution has already been mentioned, but I cannot see that he has properly addressed the problem of driving the backlights. Looking around it is possible to find several people who have made what appears to be professional looking boards for this very purpose. Usually they have a DP or mini DP input. They vary a lot in price; here is one which does not appear too expensive:

http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=47

I have not made a decision, but the latter seems to be a lot less hassle than the former.

On a side note, I am now satisfied that my Classic II would be donor is fully operational. While I have not been able to boot it that is purely down to a lack of a bootable floppy or hard drive. In my initial tests I switched it off as it seemed to be doing nothing beyond showing the grey boot background. If you leave it a few seconds longer though the mouse pointer and "missing floppy" icon appears, indicating that the system is ready to boot but cannot find any boot media. It is a shame that it was stripped of hard drive, floppy drive and cables at an earlier point in time.

I am now torn between doing a full restoration or packaging all the innards nicely and storing them in the attic for another few years. It would be cool, but not very useful, to have a working Classic II to play around with. Maybe I could give it to the kids and have them tell me I grew up in the stone age. It is clear to me though that I cannot do any irreversible modifications to the case or any of the components. That rules out using the CRT front as a glass protection over the LCD as I have seen some other people have done. It also rules out putting any DVD/BD drive in there. That is not a big loss, but it would have been nice to use the Classic II for the kids to watch DVDs on.
 
While I have not yet decided whether to restore the Classic II or turn it into a hackintosh, I have conducted some further research. The iPad screen is just a touch too large for this project. It is the same size as the traditional iPad screen which has been "used with success" in the various iPad stand conversions littering the web, but that is running iOS and thus is not so sensitive to a few millimeters of the edges, and particularly the corners, being hidden behind the Classic II's front panel. That is, however, different under OS X, which will not be workable if the edges and particularly the corners are not viewable.

I have therefore switched my interest to the iPad Mini Retina panel. It is smaller than I would like (7.9" compared to the original 9"), but that would perhaps make it look more than the original since that one had wide black borders like most CRT monitors of that time. It does use eDP, which is an advantage, but unfortunately it has a different eDP connector than its larger cousin. This one uses a 32-pin connector while the other has a 51-pin connector. The difference is probably due to the fact that the smaller panel's backlight has only 6 LED lines compared to 12 LED lines for the larger panel. That is 12 pins right there, and the 51-pin connector has a lot of signal VCC and ground pins which may or may not be required. In any event, I don't know of any ready made board which uses the 32-pin connector. If I should get my hands on a board which has the 51-pin connector, it should be possible to make an adapter to allow that board to drive the smaller panel.

I did also look into other panels, to get a size which better fits the aperture of the Classic II, but they all use either a MIPI DSI or an LVDS interface. Interfacing to such a panel would be much more of a challenge.

I have found an eDP driver board which I would like to use:

http://dp2retina.rozsnyo.com/

Unfortunately they don't appear to answer my emails, and there is no online order form. It looks like the website has not been updated in a long while, just as for all the other dp to edp projects that I have come across. If anyone knows how to get hold of one of these babies, I would appreciate if you could let me know. They finally did answer, so contact has been established. I will post further update if I am able to get my hands on a board.
 
After much research I have decided to go for an eDP driver board for the iPad mini retina panel:

http://abusemark.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=53

I did consider a lot of other panels and I also considered trying to interface the iPad mini panel to a driver board for the "full size" iPad retina panel and even trying to make my own paneldriver board. In the end I did not want to take on too many risks, so the selected driver board seemed to be the best option. It is not too expensive (40 EUR including shipping), but I will probably have to pay import duties on arrival since it is shipped from Japan. If it does not work out I will not have sunk a fortune into it.

I have also placed an order for an iPad mini retina panel (LP079QX1-SP0V):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151509135940

The panel came in at 49 GBP including shipping, and it is shipped from the UK so there will be no import taxes. I have placed the orders and am now waiting for them to be delivered. Other items I will be needing:

mainboard + CPU
RAM
SSD

The current thinking is to go for an intel NUC of the Haswell variety. The i5 looks enticing, but I probably will do just as well with the i3 version. This computer will not be a gaming machine, nor will it support any heavy lifting workflows. I am starting to form some ideas in my head what I will use it for, but more on that later. The advantage with the NUC is that it offers really good value for money AND it comes with a mini eDP output alongside the more common HDMI. The fact that it is small is not so important in this build as the Classic II's case has ample space for a mini-ITX or maybe even an mATX board. Keeping an eye out for a good deal on eBay.
 
The iPad mini retina panel arrived yesterday, and it looks to be a near perfect fit for the Classic II aperture. I will have to get some black card to make a passepartout, hiding the edge of the panel, but I think it won't leave a too wide black border. Then cover that with a piece of glass or acrylic sheet.

The driver board has already arrived from Japan, but customs clearance is taking a few days. I should have it the day after tomorrow.

Finally, I have managed to get an i3 Haswell NUC off eBay and it is on its way.

Starting to get excited. The moment of truth, connecting the pieces and turning on the system for the first time, is getting nearer. Unfortunately, I don't have any computers with a DP port already, so I will have to wait for the NUC to arrive.
 
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