Skylake Thunderbolt 3 for Music Production

[koitsu]

Ok, then let me ask like this...
Is there z170 with TB1 or 2??

Also, if I understand right - as long as TB3 is recognized in OS X - then the UAD should work with a converter cable TB2 to TB3?

And lastly, what is the difference between usb 3.1 and TB3? The gigabyte board has TB3? I thought the new MacBooks have usb 3.1?

Thanks guys

Theoretically, yes, TB1 and 2 devices should work via TB3 provided you have a plug adapter. But it hasn't been verified as far as I have seen.

TB3 is double the bandwidth of TB2 and includes USB3.1 support. My understanding is that Intel actually integrated a USB3.1 controller into their TB3 chipset. So basically having an Intel TB3 chipset means you already have USB3.1 support plus you can run TB3 devices off the same port(s). However, conversely, if you have just "plain old" USB3.1 you cannot use TB3 devices through the port.

I don't know anything about the new macbook.

 

[tundraurora]

thunderbolt 3 is backwards compatible.. you just need an adaptor.
new macbooks don't have the new 10Gbps USB 3.1.. afaik..

 

[joevt]

Is there z170 with TB1 or 2??

I haven't seen any.

Also, if I understand right - as long as TB3 is recognized in OS X - then the UAD should work with a converter cable TB2 to TB3?

Current OS X drivers do see some of the TB3 hardware, but it's not all there so you can't see the devices on the other end yet and there is not hot plugging yet. There are TB3 to TB2 adapters but they won't work with Mac OS X until the Thunderbolt drivers are updated to support Thunderbolt 3.

And lastly, what is the difference between usb 3.1 and TB3? The gigabyte board has TB3? I thought the new MacBooks have usb 3.1?

TB3 includes USB 3.1 and DisplayPort 1.2 and PCIe support which makes it a superset of USB 3.1. Gigabyte boards use the Alpine Ridge controller (DSL6540) for both TB3 and USB 3.1. Some of them (like the Gaming 5 or UD5) are setup to only support USB 3.1 while others (like the Gaming 7 or UD5 TH) are setup to also support Thunderbolt 3. The setup for TB3 requires extra PCIe lanes and power delivery and other stuff. Compare the UD5 with the UD5 TH in these reviews:
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7326/gigabyte-z170x-ud5-intel-z170-motherboard-review/index4.html
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/74...-th-intel-z170-motherboard-review/index4.html

The MacBooks have USB 3.1 Gen 1 which is just USB 3.0 (5 Gb/s) with a Type-C connector. USB 3.1 Gen 2 is 10 Gb/s and may use a Type-A or Type-C connector.

To get video out of the MacBook's Type-C connector, a USB adapter is used. The video frames are transferred using USB.

To get video out of a TB3 connector, the DisplayPort signal is used directly (which could be DisplayPort or a DisplayPort Dual Mode single link DVI or HDMI signal). A ThunderBolt display would use a ThunderBolt stream of the video.

 

[joevt]

Actually, I tried a ThunderBolt 3 hard drive today and it worked when I connected it before startup to my Gigabyte Z170X Gaming 7 Thunderbolt 3 port. I'm using 10.11.5. I've ordered a Thunderbolt 2 adapter so I'll test a MacBook Pro in Thunderbolt Target Disk Mode. I don't have any other ThunderBolt 2 or 3 devices so I don't know if it works with anything other than a hard drive. I've ordered a OWC Thunderbolt 2 dock. I'll test the audio and other ports on that when it arrives.

Hot Plug does not work though.

 

[akash227]

Actually, I tried a ThunderBolt 3 hard drive today and it worked when I connected it before startup to my Gigabyte Z170X Gaming 7 Thunderbolt 3 port. I'm using 10.11.5. I've ordered a Thunderbolt 2 adapter so I'll test a MacBook Pro in Thunderbolt Target Disk Mode. I don't have any other ThunderBolt 2 or 3 devices so I don't know if it works with anything other than a hard drive. I've ordered a OWC Thunderbolt 2 dock. I'll test the audio and other ports on that when it arrives.

Hot Plug does not work though.

Have you tried a usb-c to displayport or hdmi yet with your port??

 

[joevt]

Have you tried a usb-c to displayport or hdmi yet with your port??

I haven't tried those yet.

The Type-C connector on the Gigabyte motherboards are USB 3.1, and the Apple drivers don't support that speed (10 Gb/s). Maybe there's a patch that could be made to make the driver accept the port's speed. These are the messages that are seen in the system log:

        AppleUSBXHCIPCI@00000000: AppleUSBXHCI::createPorts: created port 1
        AppleUSBXHCIPCI@00000000: AppleUSBXHCI::createPorts: created port 2
        AppleUSBXHCIPCI@00000000: AppleUSBXHCI::createPorts: unsupported speed mantissa 10 exponent 3
        AppleUSBXHCIPCI@00000000: AppleUSBXHCI::createPorts: port 3 unsupported protocol USB  03.01
        AppleUSBXHCIPCI@00000000: AppleUSBXHCI::createPorts: failed to allocate port 3
        AppleUSBXHCIPCI@00000000: AppleUSBXHCI::getCompanionPortGated: unsupported protocol USB  03.01
        AppleUSBXHCIPCI@00000000: AppleUSBXHCI::getCompanionPortGated: unsupported protocol USB  03.01

The source code for Apple's XHCI drivers is not available so making the patch might be difficult. Maybe there is a open source XHCI driver that will work?

There are 3 kinds of USB-C video adapters that I could find. http://plugable.com has examples of all 3 devices.

1) USB-C alternate mode. Alternate modes allow non USB signals (such as video) to pass through the USB port. For example, the MacBook 12" supports Native DisplayPort 1.2 video output. DisplayPort 1.2 also allows pass through of HDMI 2.0.
http://plugable.com/products/usbc-hdmi
http://plugable.com/products/usbc-vga
http://plugable.com/products/usbc-dp

2) Thunderbolt 3 - I don't know what all the differences are between USB-C alternate mode video adapters and Thunderbolt 3 video adapters. I guess one difference is that Thunderbolt 3 can support up to 2 displays because it has higher bandwidth.
http://plugable.com/products/tbt3-hdmi2x
http://plugable.com/products/tbt3-dp2x

3) USB DisplayLink (or other USB graphics adapters such as from MCT, j5, or SMSC) - these work from any USB port, are not connected to the built in graphics so don't perform as well (extra latency?).
http://plugable.com/2012/07/11/new-usb3-to-vga-adapter
http://plugable.com/products/usb3-vga
http://plugable.com/products/uga-3000
http://plugable.com/products/uga-4kdp
http://plugable.com/products/uga-4khdmi
http://plugable.com/products/uga-2khdmi

Alternate mode and Thunderbolt 3 adapters have to use the USB-C port that is connected to the built-in graphics. So you can't use those on other USB ports.

I'm not sure if the Apple USB-C VGA Multiport Adapter or USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter are like DisplayLink, or use alternate mode. When I plugged the AV Multiport Adapter in Windows, it looked like a USB device, including the video part. I'll have to compare that to an alternate mode adapter...

Adapters with Type C female and Type A male connectors exist (but are against the USB spec). One of those could be used to test USB-C devices connected to the normal USB 3.0 ports. The alternate mode and Thunderbolt 3 devices won't work, but the USB graphics adapters should.

It might be possible that USB-C Alternate mode adapters can work in Mac OS X without updated drivers, if all the connectivity is handled correctly by BIOS at startup. I've already seen that a Thunderbolt 3 hard drive can work.

Using discreet graphics (e.g. Nvidia graphics) is preferable to integrated graphics (Intel CPU/GPU). In most desktops, the graphics signal will come from the integrated graphics and you would use the ports on a graphics card instead. If you have a laptop then these adapters make more sense. In Apple laptops that have both kinds of chips, the DisplayPort signal comes from the more powerful discreet graphics chip.

 

[zipb]

Actually, I tried a ThunderBolt 3 hard drive today and it worked when I connected it before startup to my Gigabyte Z170X Gaming 7 Thunderbolt 3 port. I'm using 10.11.5. I've ordered a Thunderbolt 2 adapter so I'll test a MacBook Pro in Thunderbolt Target Disk Mode. I don't have any other ThunderBolt 2 or 3 devices so I don't know if it works with anything other than a hard drive. I've ordered a OWC Thunderbolt 2 dock. I'll test the audio and other ports on that when it arrives.

Hot Plug does not work though.

Did you have to 'wake up' the TB ports in Windows first?

 

[joevt]

Did you have to 'wake up' the TB ports in Windows first?

I don't think so.

You have to use Windows to update the Thunderbolt Firmware which is downloaded from the motherboard's support website. I guess you should make sure the device works in Windows before trying it in Mac OS X.

Other than that, I just have to plug the device in before startup if I want to use it in Mac OS X. The device is an AKiTiO Thunder3 Duo Pro.
https://www.akitio.com/desktop-storage/thunder3-duo-pro

I've ordered some USB-C alt mode adapters, and some Thunderbolt 3 video adapters, and a Thunderbolt 2 adapter, and a Thunderbolt 2 dock. I'll see if they work when they get here.

 

[FrankZap]

Does this mean I can't use dual monitors?

I run one monitor through HDMI and the other one through Thunderbolt currently. My new motherboard only had one HDMI plug, but it also said it had Thunderbolt?

 

[joevt]

According to Tony the only RAM that works with Hackintoshes are the Crucial Ballistix Sport LT. So I'd go for that instead.

Does this mean I can't use dual monitors?

I run one monitor through HDMI and the other one through Thunderbolt currently. My new motherboard only had one HDMI plug, but it also said it had Thunderbolt?

What motherboard? This one? http://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/MAXIMUS-VIII-GENE/
You should add your system to your profile so we can see what you're using or want to use.

You said HDMI and Thunderbolt. I think you meant HDMI and DisplayPort? Or just HDMI? At least your HDMI and DisplayPort should work.

The MAXIMUS-VIII-GENE does not say anywhere that it supports Thunderbolt. It does say 3-display-output support. Maybe that means the USB-C port using alternate mode adapters (USB-C to HDMI or DisplayPort)? Also, the DisplayPort connector might support a DisplayPort to HDMI adapter. Anything that is HDMI can be converted to single link DVI-D (except HDMI 2.0 which is too fast).

I guess I'll test 3 display output when I get my adapters.

But you're getting a graphics card too, so you'll probably not use the built in graphics after that. I have problems trying to use a graphics card and the built in graphics at the same time in Mac OS X. I haven't tried recently though.