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Retaining Windows

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Nov 25, 2011
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Motherboard
HP Probook 4540s
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i5-3360m
Graphics
Integrated HD4000
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All (and particularly RehabMan, who is evidently very knowledgeable)...

The question is specific to my system, but the answer will be useful to most people buying Windows laptops of any sort.

I purchased a 4540s, which as you know comes with a standard MBR partitioning scheme with 4 logical volumes (all numbers approximate):

1. 300 MB System partition, NTFS formatted, including the boot sector.
2. 674 GB Windows partition, NTFS formatted.
3. 21.5 GB Recovery partition, NTFS formatted.
4. 2 GB HP_TOOLS partition, FAT32 formatted.

I have since upgraded to Windows 8 and it is the time taken to do this, together with a desire to avoid backing up the recovery partition to disk and then reinstalling all over again which is behind my question. You may think I am lazy (I am not but am time pressured), but the issue is more acute for those who have data or many installed programs and data too.

What I would like to do is to dual boot, retaining my existing Windows. So my question is...

Is there any way that I can install ML without starting from scratch. In other words, rather than a backup and disk wipe, can I somehow move my system with minimal effort to a point where it can also have ML installed without compromise.

My understanding is that ideally a wipe would be done. The OSX install process would create a hybrid disk, as follows:

1. 200 MB EFI partition specific to OSX.
2. Whatever size is wanted for ML as a GPT.
3. The remainder to Windows as a following MBR.

In this scheme, there is no means to retain the recovery partition for Windows [which I want for the installers rather than a factory refresh ability, for obvious reasons].

I have looked at an alternative. I could shrink the existing Windows volume by 60 GB to accommodate what I believe will be more than enough for ML into the future (I have already done this in anticipation of a solution which accommodates my wishes, as it was easy to do). I could easily with a number of utilities shuffle Windows along and leave a gap for OSX. I could use a freeware utility (GDisk) to convert any number logical volumes to GPT type, but I do not know where this would leave the existing recovery and HP_TOOLS directory. It also does not deal with the requirement for a leading OSX EFI partition.

So my question is, is there a strategy anyone could propose that would avoid a reinstall, keep my recovery and HP_TOOLS as usable (by which I mean seen from Windows and the BIOS)?

If the answer is a reasoned and resounding no, is there a way I could wipe and somehow (by backing up to another drive) retain the recovery & HP_TOOLS directories after they have been copied back on to the 750 MB laptop drive?

Hoping someone is kind enough (and knowledgeable enough to help).

Thanks.
 
PS I forgot, the drive is an Advanced Format (4K sectors), so I guess I will ge the boot0 error and that also needs to be deal with in any scheme, new or old.
 
All (and particularly RehabMan, who is evidently very knowledgeable)...

The question is specific to my system, but the answer will be useful to most people buying Windows laptops of any sort.

I purchased a 4540s, which as you know comes with a standard MBR partitioning scheme with 4 logical volumes (all numbers approximate):

1. 300 MB System partition, NTFS formatted, including the boot sector.
2. 674 GB Windows partition, NTFS formatted.
3. 21.5 GB Recovery partition, NTFS formatted.
4. 2 GB HP_TOOLS partition, FAT32 formatted.

I have since upgraded to Windows 8 and it is the time taken to do this, together with a desire to avoid backing up the recovery partition to disk and then reinstalling all over again which is behind my question. You may think I am lazy (I am not but am time pressured), but the issue is more acute for those who have data or many installed programs and data too.

What I would like to do is to dual boot, retaining my existing Windows. So my question is...

Is there any way that I can install ML without starting from scratch. In other words, rather than a backup and disk wipe, can I somehow move my system with minimal effort to a point where it can also have ML installed without compromise.

My understanding is that ideally a wipe would be done. The OSX install process would create a hybrid disk, as follows:

1. 200 MB EFI partition specific to OSX.
2. Whatever size is wanted for ML as a GPT.
3. The remainder to Windows as a following MBR.

In this scheme, there is no means to retain the recovery partition for Windows [which I want for the installers rather than a factory refresh ability, for obvious reasons].

I have looked at an alternative. I could shrink the existing Windows volume by 60 GB to accommodate what I believe will be more than enough for ML into the future (I have already done this in anticipation of a solution which accommodates my wishes, as it was easy to do). I could easily with a number of utilities shuffle Windows along and leave a gap for OSX. I could use a freeware utility (GDisk) to convert any number logical volumes to GPT type, but I do not know where this would leave the existing recovery and HP_TOOLS directory. It also does not deal with the requirement for a leading OSX EFI partition.

So my question is, is there a strategy anyone could propose that would avoid a reinstall, keep my recovery and HP_TOOLS as usable (by which I mean seen from Windows and the BIOS)?

If the answer is a reasoned and resounding no, is there a way I could wipe and somehow (by backing up to another drive) retain the recovery & HP_TOOLS directories after they have been copied back on to the 750 MB laptop drive?

Hoping someone is kind enough (and knowledgeable enough to help).

Thanks.

I think I answered this in the other thread. It really isn't worth it and what you want to do simply isn't possible. MBR is limited to 4-primary partitions, and to do a hybrid MBR/GPT you're going to be adding one more to the MBR (EFI Protective). Even if you installed OS X to MBR (by patching the installer -- not recommended), you're short by one.

If you wish to "preserve" the HP stuff, take the disk out and set it on a shelf somewhere... then buy a new HDD or SSD and install everything fresh on that drive, pulling your documents from the old disk or a backup as necessary.
 
I think that is the definitive answer (sadly).

This makes the work more substantial and while I will do it, it will now need to be next weekend, so if anyone has a genius way out (which given RehabMan's comments I doubt), I have a few days before I commit.
 
Why not replace the DVD drive with a SATA drive caddy and run ML off an SSD or hard drive in that bay? That way you can just leave your Windows drive as is. (You can even keep the use of your DVD drive by installing it in a slim external case.)

I run 10.8.2 exclusively off an SSD in the drive caddy, plus my original ML install on the internal along with Windows 7. I find it the perfect setup for my needs.
 
Brilliant, you've [almost] pushed me over the edge into ordering a caddy...

The last brick in the wall is to ask... does OSX see the extrernal USB drive easily [i.e. without modification], or did you need to do some fidding (yet more kexts)?
 
Brilliant, you've [almost] pushed me over the edge into ordering a caddy...

The last brick in the wall is to ask... does OSX see the extrernal USB drive easily [i.e. without modification], or did you need to do some fidding (yet more kexts)?
Dont worry about USB drives, I have been testing mine OSX install on a external usb 3 drive since december, is the safest and easiest way to do it.
 
Brilliant, you've [almost] pushed me over the edge into ordering a caddy...

The last brick in the wall is to ask... does OSX see the extrernal USB drive easily [i.e. without modification], or did you need to do some fidding (yet more kexts)?
Let me be sure we're understanding each other. OSX seeing an external USB drive is a separate matter than the drive caddy.

Drive bay caddy is one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2nd-HDD...9?pt=US_Drive_Bay_Caddies&hash=item43adad8067

Or similar, so long as it's for the HP Probook ...or has an internal switch to set it to the right mode for use in HP laptops. (Thread about that is here: http://www.tonymacx86.com/hp-probook-4530s/78645-hdd-caddy-question.html ) I included a pic of the internal switch needed. If buying a caddy specifically for the ProBook 4530s, then no worries about this.

A drive caddy is internal SATA and runs at full speed, giving you two internal hard drives, not external via USB. You probably know this, but just making sure in light of your quesion.


On the other hand, if you were asking about the DVD drive converted to an external USB, OSX will recognize it fine, read and burn data disks. However I ran into a problem with it playing DVD movies. (DVD player reported no valid DVD drive found). The fix for that was posted in this thread: http://www.tonymacx86.com/mountain-...rive-could-not-found-70012-mountain-lion.html

Just a matter of replacing the patched DVDPlayback.framework files as attached by the OP.

At any rate- I highly recommend the 2 hard drive/caddy route. It works great. Personally, I hardly ever read/write disks with my ProBook so I don't miss the DVD drive at all, but even so, I have it external when/if I need it.

Another note: if you go with a caddy, consider that you'll probably want to take the bezel off your DVD drive and replace any bezel that comes with the drive caddy with it. (Should fit, the bezel connectors are pretty standard.) Then the laptop looks exactly the same as it did, without a strange gap where the caddy faceplate doesn't actually fit the laptop contours.
 
All (and particularly RehabMan, who is evidently very knowledgeable)...

The question is specific to my system, but the answer will be useful to most people buying Windows laptops of any sort.

I purchased a 4540s, which as you know comes with a standard MBR partitioning scheme with 4 logical volumes (all numbers approximate):

1. 300 MB System partition, NTFS formatted, including the boot sector.
2. 674 GB Windows partition, NTFS formatted.
3. 21.5 GB Recovery partition, NTFS formatted.
4. 2 GB HP_TOOLS partition, FAT32 formatted.

I have since upgraded to Windows 8 and it is the time taken to do this, together with a desire to avoid backing up the recovery partition to disk and then reinstalling all over again which is behind my question. You may think I am lazy (I am not but am time pressured), but the issue is more acute for those who have data or many installed programs and data too.

What I would like to do is to dual boot, retaining my existing Windows. So my question is...

Is there any way that I can install ML without starting from scratch. In other words, rather than a backup and disk wipe, can I somehow move my system with minimal effort to a point where it can also have ML installed without compromise.

My understanding is that ideally a wipe would be done. The OSX install process would create a hybrid disk, as follows:

1. 200 MB EFI partition specific to OSX.
2. Whatever size is wanted for ML as a GPT.
3. The remainder to Windows as a following MBR.

In this scheme, there is no means to retain the recovery partition for Windows [which I want for the installers rather than a factory refresh ability, for obvious reasons].

I have looked at an alternative. I could shrink the existing Windows volume by 60 GB to accommodate what I believe will be more than enough for ML into the future (I have already done this in anticipation of a solution which accommodates my wishes, as it was easy to do). I could easily with a number of utilities shuffle Windows along and leave a gap for OSX. I could use a freeware utility (GDisk) to convert any number logical volumes to GPT type, but I do not know where this would leave the existing recovery and HP_TOOLS directory. It also does not deal with the requirement for a leading OSX EFI partition.

So my question is, is there a strategy anyone could propose that would avoid a reinstall, keep my recovery and HP_TOOLS as usable (by which I mean seen from Windows and the BIOS)?

If the answer is a reasoned and resounding no, is there a way I could wipe and somehow (by backing up to another drive) retain the recovery & HP_TOOLS directories after they have been copied back on to the 750 MB laptop drive?

Hoping someone is kind enough (and knowledgeable enough to help).

Thanks.

Dude, you really don't have to keep all this stuff, if you repartition your drive, the only thing you will lose is the image of the preinstalled and preactivated OS with all drivers preinstalled (and some HP branding stuff), located in the recovery partition, but this doesn't mean you can't install all the stuff, included in this image, by yourself, one by one. All these things (except maybe the HP branding) can be downloaded from the HP's support site. The only thing you need to preserve is your OEM activation (consist of OEM SLP key and OEM certificate). Once you have these two things, you can install Windows from any install media (no matter if it's an OEM DVD, a Retail DVD, a flash drive etc.) and restore them. But the decision is yours after all: to install Windows from image (which is still the fastest way to reinstall an OS with all drivers at the same time) and to install it manually (which can take up to 3 hours total: OS + drivers + updates).
 
Thanks, Zaptoons, that did push me over the edge...

...and also saved me a lot of head scratching now I know of the switch!!
 
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