Question regarding Mac Pro 4.1/5.1 running Snow Leopard and Catalina

[tlang]

Hi there,
this time it's a question about real Apple hardware: As my old G5 devices slowly are dying I'm looking for a possibility to buy some time for some older PPC software - several programs need to run natively because of graphics requirements or access to certain hardware.

On the other hand for daily use a current system is a must.

The only hardware so far capable of this is the Mac Pro 2009/2010 with the 5,1 firmware.

Now my problem: I need a graphics card which on one side is supporting Metal and on the other side has drivers for Snow Leopard. Does anyone know if and which graphics cards fall into this category?

Because as far as I know current systems won't even boot if only an older card is present (together with a current one) swapping gfx cards every time I want to switch the system is a no go...

Regards,
Torsten

 

[scottkendall]

Hi there,
this time it's a question about real Apple hardware: As my old G5 devices slowly are dying I'm looking for a possibility to buy some time for some older PPC software - several programs need to run natively because of graphics requirements or access to certain hardware.

On the other hand for daily use a current system is a must.

The only hardware so far capable of this is the Mac Pro 2009/2010 with the 5,1 firmware.

Now my problem: I need a graphics card which on one side is supporting Metal and on the other side has drivers for Snow Leopard. Does anyone know if and which graphics cards fall into this category?

Because as far as I know current systems won't even boot if only an older card is present (together with a current one) swapping gfx cards every time I want to switch the system is a no go...

Regards,
Torsten

Your older software will not run on High Sierra? Are you really stuck at Snowleopard? If you could get to High Sierra you could use an RX580 in both OS's. Also, you might take a peek down in the Snow Leopard sub fourm.

 

[UtterDisbelief]

Also worth noting the Metal API was not introduced until 2014, 5-years after Snow Leopard. It is not going to be recognised by any OS prior to it's release.

Are you also saying you need to run PPC software? The latest that can be achieved was for the duration of the first version of Rosetta after the switch to Intel CPUs. From OS X Lion onwards Rosetta was not an option any more.

 

[tlang]

Your older software will not run on High Sierra?

As long as High Sierra supports PPC software... But IMHO SL was the last OS with Rosetta and I never saw any hack to bring it back.

Also worth noting the Metal API was not introduced until 2014, 5-years after Snow Leopard.

Well, that's not the point. I don't need Metal in SL, that's clear, but I need a card that is supported by the Metal API to run Mojave and newer while I still need drivers for the older systems.

Are you also saying you need to run PPC software?

Yes, that exactly what I'm saying. I should be able to run all relevant software under SL. Currently I have a dedicated machine for that, but that's quite a waste of space.

 

[UtterDisbelief]

Well, that's not the point. I don't need Metal in SL, that's clear, but I need a card that is supported by the Metal API to run Mojave and newer while I still need drivers for the older systems.

The trouble is there will be no native support for a Metal-capable GPU in an OS released before the card was developed.

Using a new GPU, you might get, blocky, stuttering, non-accelerated, VESA standard graphics, or you might just get a black screen. A bit of a gamble unless you know otherwise.

 

[tlang]

The trouble is there will be no native support for a Metal-capable GPU in an OS released before the card was developed.

Yes, I'm not totally brain dumb. But still the question is unanswered - is there any card old enough for SL support and on the other hand supported by Metal?
For example the Quadro K2000 I'm using in my Hacki was released long before Metal came up and is my current choice there to run El Capitan productive on one hand and later OS like Catalina experimental on the other hand.
Apple's list of supported cards simply is incomplete, otherwise it should contain this one, so my hope is that there is a Metal capable card old enough to be supported way back to SL.

 

[scottkendall]

Yes, I'm not totally brain dumb. But still the question is unanswered - is there any card old enough for SL support and on the other hand supported by Metal?
For example the Quadro K2000 I'm using in my Hacki was released long before Metal came up and is my current choice there to run El Capitan productive on one hand and later OS like Catalina experimental on the other hand.
Apple's list of supported cards simply is incomplete, otherwise it should contain this one, so my hope is that there is a Metal capable card old enough to be supported way back to SL.

You may find a card that can be hacked into working but you will experience tearing and artifacts.

Is there a card that works? Yes
Is there a card that works without problems? NO

Remember a card that works and a card that is supported/recommended are not the same thing. So to say Apples list is incomplete is actually not correct. Apples list shows what they recommend as working.

Be realistic if you have to run software that is as old as dirt then do not complain having two computers it takes up too much space. Instead put the computer in a closet somewhere else and access it remotely.

I myself refuse to learn new drafting software and require a windows machine for Revit. At some point in the future when I change over to Apple Silicon system. When that day comes I not be able to run a VM for windows, and will make a dedicated Windows machine for Revit. That dedicated machine will be in closet.

 

[tlang]

Is there a card that works? Yes
Is there a card that works without problems? NO

Well, that's finally a clear statement. From what I found in the net the Metal support seems to depend on OpenGL support (3.0 ES for the embedded platforms and 4.x (0 or 3 ?) for the desktops.
As the first gfx cards with this seem to be release a year or so after SL this makes the intersection of my requirements empty.
So as you said it seems I will have to set up a dedicated system. But then it doesn't need to be an overprized 4,1/5,1, the older models are much cheaper to get and are just fine for SL.
As I will move away from MacOS in future (every backend and media system I have already is running Linux, at work we have switched over from Windows even for the workstations) this seems to be the way to preserve some software until the switchover is done.

 

[scottkendall]

Well, that's finally a clear statement. From what I found in the net the Metal support seems to depend on OpenGL support (3.0 ES for the embedded platforms and 4.x (0 or 3 ?) for the desktops.

The only reason I had a clear statement was that I actually looked for one! Google is your friend!

As the first gfx cards with this seem to be release a year or so after SL this makes the intersection of my requirements empty.
So as you said it seems I will have to set up a dedicated system. But then it doesn't need to be an overprized 4,1/5,1, the older models are much cheaper to get and are just fine for SL.

No Idea only you can answer what will fit the bill for your needs.

As I will move away from MacOS in future (every backend and media system I have already is running Linux, at work we have switched over from Windows even for the workstations) this seems to be the way to preserve some software until the switchover is done.

What ever works.