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October 18th 2021 Apple Event: M1 Pro/Max MacBook Pros

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NAS are not included because, even if equipped with a 10Gbe port they don't have comparable performances than local SSDs. Probably we all will need a sort of DAS or something like that, connected by a Thunderbolt port .
Thunderbolt-attached storage is a "hidden NAS" in that it runs as embedded networking in the Thunderbolt bus, using the same 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes you would dedicate to a 10 GbE port. So a 10 GbE NAS is just as good as Thunderbolt, but more universal, more suited to multiple clients and much easier to implement in a Hackintosh. And I'd say that, with soldered-in internal storage, sold at Apple price, NAS should pretty much be included in the picture for users of real AppleSilicon Macs.
 

trs96

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Based on today’s event I can’t imagine how supercalifragilistic the new Mac Pro will be. “Can’t innovate any more, my a$$!” Those words were never more true than today.
I was thinking "Where's Phil" yesterday. Would have liked to see him present again. He would have used the word "Amazing" quite frequently. I think he has moved on to a higher up position at Apple and is letting the younger guys take over the marketing. Hopefully he speaks or at least has a video narration at the next Mac Pro unveiling.

Screen Shot 15.jpg
 
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Thunderbolt-attached storage is a "hidden NAS" in that it runs as embedded networking in the Thunderbolt bus, using the same 4 PCIe 3.0 lanes you would dedicate to a 10 GbE port. So a 10 GbE NAS is just as good as Thunderbolt, but more universal, more suited to multiple clients and much easier to implement in a Hackintosh.

No, I don't think so. Don't forget that Thunderbolt4 embeds USB4 inside and this means you can have a full 20Gbs connection (USB 3.2 gen. 2) easily, still being local. There is plenty of speed in such a connection, useful for most of us. Probably a local PCI4 NVMe can do better performance but only when it uses its dram cache, then the speed goes down considerably.

If the path is to go towards M1 machines then I'd like to have a small Hackintosh with Thunderbolt capabilities to connect to my M1, one day. It would be my DAS storage, low cost.

And I'd say that, with soldered-in internal storage, sold at Apple price, NAS should pretty much be included in the picture for users of real AppleSilicon Macs.

Yes, that's very true... that's why I'm looking for a DAS solution with less overhead than a networked one. I want to save my NAS as purely backup system.
 
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geekbench M1 Max

Here compared to 5950x

Here compared to 10900k
I'm not quite sure it makes sense to compare a laptop to desktops, but here are some more:
M1 Max vs. W-3223 (8-core Mac Pro)

M1 Max vs W-3225 (12-core Mac Pro)

The most relevant comparisons would be the GPU, versus Big Navi, and ProRes encoding, M1 Pro/Max versus Mac Pro alone and versus Mac Pro with Afterburner. But if the Mac Pro fails to turn up largely in front in those, Apple has a potential embarrassment of a M1 Max-based Mac mini vs. low-end Mac Pro.

At the high-end, Xeons still hold the top multi-core scores, but again the most interesting results will be from the GPU and custom accelerators rather than CPU:
M1 Max vs. Xeon Platinum 8255C (my numbers :geek: )
the Xeon build certainly draws out more power from the wall, but at least it comes out cheaper (refurbished from Tencent servers)

M1 Max vs. W-3265 (genuine 24-core Mac Pro)

M1 Max vs. W-3275 (top-end Mac Pro)
 

pastrychef

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The most relevant comparisons would be the GPU, versus Big Navi, and ProRes encoding, M1 Pro/Max versus Mac Pro alone and versus Mac Pro with Afterburner. But if the Mac Pro fails to turn up largely in front in those, Apple has a potential embarrassment of a M1 Max-based Mac mini vs. low-end Mac Pro.

Screen Shot 2021-10-19 at 6.45.53 AM.png


About 42:30 in to the video...


Btw, for the Arm performance deniers, Alibaba is the latest company to move to Arm for their servers:
 
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Besides the technical merits of ARM, Alibaba's move may have to do with the US-China fight on technology. But it's good to know.

For ARM deniers, there's also this piece on Ampere Altra:
Reading this should put to rest any rant that "ARM does not come in sockets", "ARM has no RAM slots", "ARM is memory-limited" (well, admittedly, there is a limit: 4 TB per socket), "ARM does not come with PCIe slots" (will 128 PCIe 4.0 lanes do?), "ARM is for phones and tablets" (OK, I give up and pass on a 250W tablet with a CPU package the size of a small phone :D ).
Altra is a server platform. I wouldn't want exactly that in a desktop—and, with its current limit to 64 threads, OS X would instantly panic on anything higher in the stack than a Q64-33. But I still hope that the future "Jade" platform for AppleSilicon Mac Pro will look more like an Altra than like a M1 SoC.

I had missed the part on editing an insane number of ProRes streams on the M1 Max (30 in 4K, 7 in 8K vs. 23@4K, 6@8K for Afterburner), nicely hidden after the gloat on the revolutionary keyboard with tactile black keys instead of a TouchBar (Apple knows its priorities!). Well, that doesn't bode well for an interim update of the Mac Pro with Ice Lake Xeon W-3300, does it?
 
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I was a reading a comment from another tech website, and someone mentioned an interesting idea about how the new Macbook Pros would also appeal to gamers. The reason? Well currently if you want something that could output at 4K or greater, a large dedicated gaming rig would probably cost something like $4500 for a good PC based setup. Instead the Macbook Pros are at near that just over half the cost. If the M1 is known to output around 30fps on a typical game like Shadow of the Tomb Raider (at 1440x900), and if M1 Max is 4x as faster than the M1 on graphics then you're theoretically likely looking at 120fps for 1440 and 30fps for 4K gaming with a M1 Max Macbook Pro, which I have to say is utterly impressive! The only downside to this at present is that not many Mac titles are M1-compatible. But that could all change if the uptake of M1-based Macs increases in the marketplace.

As it goes I've just been to visit my local Apple Store this evening (expecting to see if the new MBP was on display) and have been told they will be in and around stores on Oct 26th. I honestly can't wait to check it out when it does! It would be nice to see it up close, especially with the new high contrast ratio screen.
 

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I was a reading a comment from another tech website, and someone mentioned an interesting idea about how the new Macbook Pros would also appeal to gamers. The reason? Well currently if you want something that could output at 4K or greater, a large dedicated gaming rig would probably cost something like $4500 for a good PC based setup. Instead the Macbook Pros are at near that just over half the cost. If the M1 is known to output around 30fps on a typical game like Shadow of the Tomb Raider (at 1440x900), and if M1 Max is 4x as faster than the M1 on graphics then you're theoretically likely looking at 120fps for 1440 and 30fps for 4K gaming with a M1 Max Macbook Pro, which I have to say is utterly impressive! The only downside to this at present is that not many Mac titles are M1-compatible. But that could all change if the uptake of M1-based Macs increases in the marketplace.

As it goes I've just been to visit my local Apple Store this evening (expecting to see if the new MBP was on display) and have been told they will be in and around stores on Oct 26th. I honestly can't wait to check it out when it does! It would be nice to see it up close, especially with the new high contrast ratio screen.

Of great interest, but I saw no mention (please update me if I missed it) of Rosetta 2. The original got phased out when PowerPC apps had mostly been converted to Universal or Native. When will the cut-off for Intel be?

Likely some time off. Perhaps because Apple still includes x86 machines in their line-up it will have a longer life. In fact Apple could even sell it as a stand-alone app at some point, though I doubt it.

VM Software developers seem unable to progress beyond ARM Windows and Linux. Apple has clearly shown with Rosetta that the job of running x86 apps is entirely possible. Connectix, back in the day, gave us PowerPC VM hosts that ran Intel apps. You'd think nowadays it would be a piece of cake for those well-paid PhD programmers to offer something useful. But then, perhaps they are making a point?
 
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trs96

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but I saw no mention (please update me if I missed it) of Rosetta 2.
I heard it mentioned. Looks like it is still a part of Monterey for the new M1 Pro/Max Macs.

From the Apple Newsroom:
All of Apple’s Mac apps are optimized for — and run natively on — Apple silicon, and there are over 10,000 Universal apps and plug-ins available. Existing Mac apps that have not yet been updated to Universal will run seamlessly with Apple’s Rosetta 2 technology, and users can also run iPhone and iPad apps directly on the Mac, opening a huge new universe of possibilities.

 
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I just had a quick look at what a MBP M1 would cost to replace my current Hack(same amount of RAM/internal storage as I have now): a little over 6000 eu. Not going to happen anytime soon.
 
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