Mojave the best and final version of Macos?

[TinkeringAround]

Try windows first before breaking the hack. I did the same for weeks now, I really forced myself to use Windows instead of macOS since I dont like how Apple acts. I really tried it over month. Result is that I deleted the Windows SSD and use it as Backup for my Hack since the Hack is easier to maintain and runs better than Windows 10 ...
Under Windows you need so many s*itty 3rd party apps to even do basic tasks like showing foldersizes in Exploder, or sending an email with an alias

Thanks for the thoughts, my own experience is heading that way. I really do resent the behaviour of Apple on so many levels, quality and general release bugginess are the 2 major bugbears for me. But wait. New versions of everything.. featuring.. new emojis. Good grief.

Oh puhlease. So far as I'm concerned, Apple can go for the brain dead market if that's what Timmy's inclinations are, but as I see it, it's the long race to the bottom, make no mistake, Jony didn't run for the hills because he sees a long and fruitful future for Apple. Hallelujia.

 

[tabarus]

new emojis.

at least we have a great build in email client, can show the foldersizes in finder etc...
Windows is missing even those tiny essential features and yeah they also add new emojis, phone support, narrator.
Dark mode is still broken.

 

[pastrychef]

Thanks for the thoughts, my own experience is heading that way. I really do resent the behaviour of Apple on so many levels, quality and general release bugginess are the 2 major bugbears for me. But wait. New versions of everything.. featuring.. new emojis. Good grief.

Oh puhlease. So far as I'm concerned, Apple can go for the brain dead market if that's what Timmy's inclinations are, but as I see it, it's the long race to the bottom, make no mistake, Jony didn't run for the hills because he sees a long and fruitful future for Apple. Hallelujia.

I have found each version of macOS to be better than the previous version. Along with new emojis, there's also Metal 2 and lots of security improvements such as improved Gatekeeper and Read-only file systems. Also, let's not forget the really cool features such as Sidecar.

If you resent new versions of macOS, nothing is stopping you from sticking with old versions or switching to other operating systems that you don't resent and are bug-free.

Only the truly brain dead only see emojis and don't notice the under-the-hood improvements to macOS.

No one truly knows the true reason for Jony's departure because neither he nor Tim nor anyone at Apple has disclosed it. For all we know, Tim forced him out for designing MacBooks with failure prone keyboards.

 

[TinkeringAround]

Sensible comments once the underlying animus is removed. I have a high regard for your comments generally, and you've certainly been a big help to me on a few occasions, more so than most. Not this one though.

I don't resent new versions of Macos, I resent the baubles that Apple seem to think make them upgrades - there's a difference. In general, the more meaningful upgrades you refer to seem to me to be just tweaks for the sake of tweaking for the sake of bragging about upgrades and employing existing staff rather than revealing their hand and sacking them. but each to his own.

As to the emojis, pardon me for paying attention to what Apple says are upgrades in this regard, but which are in fact just baubles for the brain-dead. Sorry, but I just can't buy into another handful of emojis being anything significant, whether or not they make one's messages (as I've seen some say) more meaningful, and if they were serious about upgrading MACOS (which I don't think they have been for some time) then they would publicise the real upgrades and improvements along the lines of what you refer to, rather than selling hardware downgrades and pretending they're really hardware upgrades, because the yuppies are already nudging their Peter-principle ceiling.They're just pictures for the yo-yo-innit gangsta-loving generation which seems to be what Apple is most interested in selling to these days, and for whom the number of emojis they use in a message appears to me to directly reflect their IQ. Hackintoshing for me has simply been a response to the declining service and increasing yuppie-factor, and in 2 years, I think Hackintoshing as we know it will be dead and gone as Apple invents and uses it's own chips, and IoS bit -by-bit comes to rule the roost. Intel chips and (what is, as I understand it) the linux-based Macos are pretty much doomed to a terminal decline as Apple focuses on price-gouging in services rather than technology. If in doubt, then closely reading the Apple-orientated sites is useful, paid-for or not, though I expect many of them are.

Acknowledging all you say, I've been an Apple-ite for 15 years, and will probably remain an Apple-ite until I no longer draw useful breaths. Doesn't make me a fan of baubles and bling though. I strongly suspect that within 2 years, Apple will be well on the way further down the slippery slope. I think I stand with Jony Ive on this one. Apple used to be a marvellous innovator, but is now much better at price-gouging then innovating (my interpretation, not his words), and the world seems to be is catching on to this a lot faster than I thought it would. Anyone who's been watching their product line and sales figures must have an uneasy feeling in the pit of their stomach about what Cookie and his gang are really up to.

Might be wrong though.. , I've been wrong before.

 

[UtterDisbelief]

Sensible comments once the underlying animus is removed. I have a high regard for your comments generally, and you've certainly been a big help to me on a few occasions, more so than most. Not this one though.

I don't resent new versions of Macos, I resent the baubles that Apple seem to think make them upgrades - there's a difference. In general, the more meaningful upgrades you refer to seem to me to be just tweaks for the sake of tweaking for the sake of bragging about upgrades and employing existing staff rather than revealing their hand and sacking them. but each to his own.

As to the emojis, pardon me for paying attention to what Apple says are upgrades in this regard, but which are in fact just baubles for the brain-dead. Sorry, but I just can't buy into another handful of emojis being anything significant, whether or not they make one's messages (as I've seen some say) more meaningful, and if they were serious about upgrading MACOS (which I don't think they have been for some time) then they would publicise the real upgrades and improvements along the lines of what you refer to, rather than selling hardware downgrades and pretending they're really hardware upgrades, because the yuppies are already nudging their Peter-principle ceiling.They're just pictures for the yo-yo-innit gangsta-loving generation which seems to be what Apple is most interested in selling to these days, and for whom the number of emojis they use in a message appears to me to directly reflect their IQ. Hackintoshing for me has simply been a response to the declining service and increasing yuppie-factor, and in 2 years, I think Hackintoshing as we know it will be dead and gone as Apple invents and uses it's own chips, and IoS bit -by-bit comes to rule the roost. Intel chips and (what is, as I understand it) the linux-based Macos are pretty much doomed to a terminal decline as Apple focuses on price-gouging in services rather than technology. If in doubt, then closely reading the Apple-orientated sites is useful, paid-for or not, though I expect many of them are.

Acknowledging all you say, I've been an Apple-ite for 15 years, and will probably remain an Apple-ite until I no longer draw useful breaths. Doesn't make me a fan of baubles and bling though. I strongly suspect that within 2 years, Apple will be well on the way further down the slippery slope. I think I stand with Jony Ive on this one. Apple used to be a marvellous innovator, but is now much better at price-gouging then innovating (my interpretation, not his words), and the world seems to be is catching on to this a lot faster than I thought it would. Anyone who's been watching their product line and sales figures must have an uneasy feeling in the pit of their stomach about what Cookie and his gang are really up to.

Might be wrong though.. , I've been wrong before.

Interesting and thoughtful

I agree with a lot here. My memory is not perfect but the only real difference recently is having APFS forced on us. We could get around it on High Sierra but no longer with Mojave (ok, it is possible but very unreliable and unintended). Metal? Day-to-day does that really make any difference except to exclude a lot of older GPUs? And the new Dark theme looks pretty unpolished to my eye. Certainly when I first saw it I thought - that's not to Apple's usual beautifully-designed standards.

Having a similar history with Macs back to 2001 (so a newbie in some circles) I'm certainly not having the "fun" I used to have. Perhaps we could suggest that the iPhone changed Apple too much. I wonder if Steve Jobs anticipated the global phenomenon it would become, with so many far-reaching consequences?

I love OS X/macOS and prefer it to Windows any day, so will stick with it to the end. I guess if the company continues the way it is and perhaps finally decides to make hardware changes, such as switching from Intel to a bespoke CPU, there will surely be a crossover system, like Rosetta was previously, to help existing customers. The community will probably make use of that.

As for the OP question, I think my own pinnacle came at around Yosemite or El Capitan.

(By the way @TinkeringAround - with my Mod head on here - complete your hardware Profile with details of your build. Rules etc. Thank you )

 

[pastrychef]

Sensible comments once the underlying animus is removed. I have a high regard for your comments generally, and you've certainly been a big help to me on a few occasions, more so than most. Not this one though.

I don't resent new versions of Macos, I resent the baubles that Apple seem to think make them upgrades - there's a difference. In general, the more meaningful upgrades you refer to seem to me to be just tweaks for the sake of tweaking for the sake of bragging about upgrades and employing existing staff rather than revealing their hand and sacking them. but each to his own.

As to the emojis, pardon me for paying attention to what Apple says are upgrades in this regard, but which are in fact just baubles for the brain-dead. Sorry, but I just can't buy into another handful of emojis being anything significant, whether or not they make one's messages (as I've seen some say) more meaningful, and if they were serious about upgrading MACOS (which I don't think they have been for some time) then they would publicise the real upgrades and improvements along the lines of what you refer to, rather than selling hardware downgrades and pretending they're really hardware upgrades, because the yuppies are already nudging their Peter-principle ceiling.They're just pictures for the yo-yo-innit gangsta-loving generation which seems to be what Apple is most interested in selling to these days, and for whom the number of emojis they use in a message appears to me to directly reflect their IQ. Hackintoshing for me has simply been a response to the declining service and increasing yuppie-factor, and in 2 years, I think Hackintoshing as we know it will be dead and gone as Apple invents and uses it's own chips, and IoS bit -by-bit comes to rule the roost. Intel chips and (what is, as I understand it) the linux-based Macos are pretty much doomed to a terminal decline as Apple focuses on price-gouging in services rather than technology. If in doubt, then closely reading the Apple-orientated sites is useful, paid-for or not, though I expect many of them are.

Acknowledging all you say, I've been an Apple-ite for 15 years, and will probably remain an Apple-ite until I no longer draw useful breaths. Doesn't make me a fan of baubles and bling though. I strongly suspect that within 2 years, Apple will be well on the way further down the slippery slope. I think I stand with Jony Ive on this one. Apple used to be a marvellous innovator, but is now much better at price-gouging then innovating (my interpretation, not his words), and the world seems to be is catching on to this a lot faster than I thought it would. Anyone who's been watching their product line and sales figures must have an uneasy feeling in the pit of their stomach about what Cookie and his gang are really up to.

Might be wrong though.. , I've been wrong before.

Apple presents things and spotlights different aspects of macOS based on audience. Emojis are highlighted in iPhone presentations while under-the-hood improvements are the focus at WWDC presentations. I see no problem with playing to the audience here.

As a business, I feel it's only logical that they add things that appeal to their customers. Like it or not, a great deal of customers like the emojis. In fact, I believe that the blue bubble Messages helps Apple sell a lot of devices.

Yes, Apple places an emphasis on aesthetics of all that they do. This includes their hardware as well as their operating systems. I don't know why this is a problem. Visual appeal makes using their products that much more enjoyable. It's also why GUIs are far more popular than command lines.

Under the hood, there has been lots of improvements over the years in macOS that has been under appreciated. Each iteration of macOS brings higher security. Other things such as APFS or Metal and Metal 2 aren't often spoken about because the transition from HFS+ and OpenGL/OpenCL has been so smooth that most users don't even notice it. I think considerable effort had to be made to make these transitions so seamless.

When you consider the alternative, namely Windows, what major improvements have been made to Windows 10 since it's introduction in 2015? Heck, I don't think they've even added new emojis.

Yes, Apple products are expensive. I've said that Apple has become the Hermès of tech. As a consumer, I don't like it but I can't fault a business for trying to be as profitable as they possibly can. I'm much happier seeing a profitable Apple than one that's on the brink of extinction. I remember buying Macs not knowing if Apple will be around next month or whether or not Mac OS would ever be updated again. A financially healthy Apple means continued support and updates for macOS.

Using custom SoC, chips, components, etc. has long been the modus operandi of Apple. This dates back to when Steve Jobs was still around. He has always wanted total control of the entire widget. Whether or not this means the end of hackintoshing, we don't know. Just when things were looking bleak, Apple threw the hackintosh community a bone and released the iMac19,1 which doesn't contain a T2.

I know this will sound crazy, but I have a feeling that Apple sometimes does things to help support hackintoshing. One good example is support for standard NVMe SSDs. I can't think of any instances where Apple actively attacked hackintoshing. I suspect that the hackintoshing community helps Apple with a considerable amount of free R&D and beta testing.

 

[TinkeringAround]

When you consider the alternative, namely Windows, what major improvements have been made to Windows 10 since it's introduction in 2015? Heck, I don't think they've even added new emojis.

Can't/don't/won't disagree here, but I can't see how you square the circle of not attacking Hackintosh and the impending change in underlying OS. I certainly don't think they learn very much from sites like this one.

Opinions are like bottoms - everyone's got one. Personally I think Apple exploits and takes advantage (as do all businesses), but while providing a diminishing return. The new 13" Mac Pro with a slower CPU (albeit 4 cores), and a slower SSD, and that awful touch bar thingy is a pretty good example of overpriced. Useless 'features' (like the touch bar, that awful CSR hack, and today's T2 chip are all designd to make Apple machines even more proprietary than they've always been. Just because there was a work-around for the CSR dubious 'feature' doesn't mean there will be one when Apple's own chips replace the Intel chips.

Look at the incidence of buggy releases and software that just seems not to have been(adequately) tested and it's clear how much of Steve Job's legacy has been allowed to wither and die. Nowadays, quality control seems to be a real problem for Apple, they used to be the gold standard for quality. Then came antenna-gate and all the rest, then the built-in age-related slow-downs and disastrous butterfly keyboard. Apple is now more characterised by sloppiness and big-noting itself than anything else as far as I'm concerned. The 'bad-lip-reading' joke video was much closer to reality than I'm frankly comfortable with.

Still. while I doubt I will ever upgrade to Catalina to get the new emojis, my Mojave-based hack does everything I need, and I've either by-passed or killed off the various bits of miscellany that I don't like. If it ain't broke then I ain't going to fix it. I also doubt I'll ever buy a new iPhone or iPad, but then, being one of the crowd or a yuppie never really mattered much to me. I'm in a crowd of one and that suits me just fine. And which is a lot cheaper.

 

[pastrychef]

Can't/don't/won't disagree here, but I can't see how you square the circle of not attacking Hackintosh and the impending change in underlying OS. I certainly don't think they learn very much from sites like this one.

Opinions are like bottoms - everyone's got one. Personally I think Apple exploits and takes advantage (as do all businesses), but while providing a diminishing return. The new 13" Mac Pro with a slower CPU (albeit 4 cores), and a slower SSD, and that awful touch bar thingy is a pretty good example of overpriced. Useless 'features' (like the touch bar, that awful CSR hack, and today's T2 chip are all designd to make Apple machines even more proprietary than they've always been. Just because there was a work-around for the CSR dubious 'feature' doesn't mean there will be one when Apple's own chips replace the Intel chips.

Look at the incidence of buggy releases and software that just seems not to have been(adequately) tested and it's clear how much of Steve Job's legacy has been allowed to wither and die. Nowadays, quality control seems to be a real problem for Apple, they used to be the gold standard for quality. Then came antenna-gate and all the rest, then the built-in age-related slow-downs and disastrous butterfly keyboard. Apple is now more characterised by sloppiness and big-noting itself than anything else as far as I'm concerned. The 'bad-lip-reading' joke video was much closer to reality than I'm frankly comfortable with.

Still. while I doubt I will ever upgrade to Catalina to get the new emojis, my Mojave-based hack does everything I need, and I've either by-passed or killed off the various bits of miscellany that I don't like. If it ain't broke then I ain't going to fix it. I also doubt I'll ever buy a new iPhone or iPad, but then, being one of the crowd or a yuppie never really mattered much to me. I'm in a crowd of one and that suits me just fine. And which is a lot cheaper.

What is the CSR hack?

The iPhone antenna gate was a lot of BS. That phone remained unchanged and no "fix" was ever needed. It was click bait. It was also released when Steve was still around. He told the idiots at Consumer Reports "don't hold it that way".

Slowing down the phones due to weakened batteries should have been handled differently.

The MacBook Pro keyboard failure thing is squarely on Jony Ive.

Being the largest tech company makes them the target of lots of people looking for clicks and/or looking to manipulate the stock. As I said, antenna gate was not a problem for users and continued to sell in large quantities unchanged until it was replaced by the iPhone 5. Consumer Reports was just looking for clicks.

None of these issues were nearly as disastrous as the exploding Samsung phones or their folding phone yet we never hear criticism of Samsung. In fact, we keep hearing about how innovative they are. Yes, they are so innovative that they had to discontinue the exploding phone months after release and the the folding one never even went on sale. How's that for adequately testing devices?

 

[mattystonnie]

What is the CSR hack?

The iPhone antenna gate was a lot of BS. That phone remained unchanged and no "fix" was ever needed. It was click bait. It was also released when Steve was still around. He told the idiots at Consumer Reports "don't hold it that way".

Slowing down the phones due to weakened batteries should have been handled differently.

The MacBook Pro keyboard failure thing is squarely on Jony Ive.

Being the largest tech company makes them the target of lots of people looking for clicks and/or looking to manipulate the stock. As I said, antenna gate was not a problem for users and continued to sell in large quantities unchanged until it was replaced by the iPhone 5. Consumer Reports was just looking for clicks.

None of these issues were nearly as disastrous as the exploding Samsung phones or their folding phone yet we never hear criticism of Samsung. In fact, we keep hearing about how innovative they are. Yes, they are so innovative that they had to discontinue the exploding phone months after release and the the folding one never even went on sale. How's that for adequately testing devices?

I believe that the CSR hack is when you disable system integrity protection, like we do on our hackintosh.

Thank God Jony Ive left, lots of design failure. I am hoping now we will see thicker laptops with more ports and a good keyboard.

 

[pastrychef]

I believe that the CSR hack is when you disable system integrity protection, like we do on our hackintosh.

Thank God Jony Ive left, lots of design failure. I am hoping now we will see thicker laptops with more ports and a good keyboard.

Ah... Thanks.

Luckily, I enable SIP on my hacks.