macOS Catalina to be Available this October

[trs96]

I still use some OpenGL and 32 Bit Apps daily so for me Catalina would be a step backwards, also I really don't need any of the new features which are mostly gimmicks IMO.

To me, Catalina looks like a transition to a complete purging of everything Nvidia related that is still left in macOS. It will all be gone once we get 10.16 in 2020. After that, it's likely that Apple will say goodbye to Intel Macs. No idea what year that will happen. Hopefully not until later in the 2020s. I don't think they are in any hurry to switch to their own ARM chips in Macs. Their focus is mostly on phones and tablets right now. They've lowered the iPhone 11 price to get the laggards to upgrade. A lot of people still use iPhone 6S and 7. Even the iPads are reasonably priced. They don't sell a lot of Macs relative to HP and Lenovo's PC sales, but their average Mac sale price is $1300. About 3x higher than the average PC sale price. So if Catalina ships later this year, sometime in October it's no "big deal" to Apple and why they didn't mention it on Tuesday. Tim Cook's strategy to make Apple the 800 pound gorilla of the corporate world has worked. Their market cap is now over 1 Trillion dollars. Sure wish I would have bought more stock in this electronic fruit company.

 

[pastrychef]

I'm looking forward to Catalina. IMO, it's the biggest update since Apple went from PowerPC to Intel. It's also going to be my first clean install since the PowerPC to Intel transition.

 

[jaymonkey]

To me, Catalina looks like a transition to a complete purging of everything Nvidia related that is still left in macOS. It will all be gone once we get 10.16 in 2020.

@trs96,

It does indeed seem that Apple is intent on purging Nvidia from MacOS and that they are only going to support AMD GPU's going forwards, If Nvidia where going to release WebDrivers for Mojave they would have done so by now.

This as we all know has upset a lot of Nvidia owners with old Mac Pro's but many of those users will have now updated to AMD GPU's and Apple will be banking on the rest buying in to the new Mac Pro when it becomes available.

I don't think they are in any hurry to switch to their own ARM chips in Macs.

I'm still on the fence about if Apple will ever switch to ARM for Mac's, I can see the logic in it for MacBook's where ARM would make for a much more power efficient Apple laptop, but when it comes to the big power systems like the new Mac Pro and the current (and next gen) iMac Pro, high core count Intel CPU's will always be favoured as CPU TDP is not really a consideration.

I highly doubt that Apple would want to develop and maintain two versions of MacOS, one for ARM and one for X86.

Apple have to support the New Mac Pro for at least 8 years given the amount of development its had and the investment users will make into that platform, so I think X86 MacOS will be around for a long time.

And in 8 Years time who knows where CPU's will be at, by that time we may have graphene based CPU's and GPU's.

Cheers
Jay

 

[Gogeta-Blue]

All you have posted very interesting comments.
Yes, macOS is better than Windows, no doubt.
But I think everything boils down to a trade off.
You get something but you lose something.
Yes, you get new features in Catalina, but you also lose some other features.
Some features might not be important or is needed by some users.
But others users might need that feature that Apple is taking away.

I sold my RTX 2080 and bought a AMD RX 580 just to be able to run macOS with graphic accelaration.
But I lost ray tracing in Windows, H265 support, CUDA, etc.

So I just finished ordering my new RTX 2080 TI EXTREME EDITION.
I love macOS, and I prefer macOS over Windows. But Apple wants to cripple my computer performance.

I can confirm that Apple stopped High Point from releasing Mojave drivers which is
exactly the same thing that they did to Nvidia.

Older High Point devices have Mojave support. But the new devices, which came out a bit before Mojave was release, didn't get any macOS drivers.
When I asked High Point why those devices don't have macOS drivers support, they told me that Apple put out some restrictions. That's why they didn't release any macOS drivers for those new devices.

My best guess, you can call it assumption is that Apple doesn't want Mac users buying those devices because Apple wants to sell Apple M.2 drivers for 1,000 dollars.
So everything that is competition or a threat to them, Apple is going to block it.

Why? Because Apple is greedy. Everybody knows that. Apple is cutting people's throat. They make all the money locking up the OS. So they only support what they want to support, and exclude who ever they don't like or they hate, like Nvidia.

Maybe a Vega 64 was a better solution or better alternative than a 580. Maybe a Radeon VII was better. But, unfortunately, it's already been discontinued. AMD stopped the plane before lift off.

I need a card with H265 support. While many don't like ray tracing, and there are only a few games that have ray tracing support. I really enjoy the ones I play that have RT support.

I could easily bought an iMac. Yes, they look pretty. They are AIO which is good to save space. But the specs, for the price you pay, is really not worth it. I like fixing my own computer, I don't want to take it to an app store. So a guy, sho knows less than me, will have to do a lousy job.

I love macos, but honestly, Mr Cook's strategy is driving me far away from macOS and back to Windows.

 

[Bustycat]

All you have posted very interesting comments.
Yes, macOS is better than Windows, no doubt.
But I think everything boils down to a trade off.
You get something but you lose something.
Yes, you get new features in Catalina, but you also lose some other features.
Some features might not be important or is needed by some users.
But others users might need that feature that Apple is taking away.

I sold my RTX 2080 and bought a AMD RX 580 just to be able to run macOS with graphic accelaration.
But I lost ray tracing in Windows, H265 support, CUDA, etc.

So I just finished ordering my new RTX 2080 TI EXTREME EDITION.
I love macOS, and I prefer macOS over Windows. But Apple wants to cripple my computer performance.

I can confirm that Apple stopped High Point from releasing Mojave drivers which is
exactly the same thing that they did to Nvidia.

Older High Point devices have Mojave support. But the new devices, which came out a bit before Mojave was release, didn't get any macOS drivers.
When I asked High Point why those devices don't have macOS drivers support, they told me that Apple put out some restrictions. That's why they didn't release any macOS drivers for those new devices.

My best guess, you can call it assumption is that Apple doesn't want Mac users buying those devices because Apple wants to sell Apple M.2 drivers for 1,000 dollars.
So everything that is competition or a threat to them, Apple is going to block it.

Why? Because Apple is greedy. Everybody knows that. Apple is cutting people's throat. They make all the money locking up the OS. So they only support what they want to support, and exclude who ever they don't like or they hate, like Nvidia.

Maybe a Vega 64 was a better solution or better alternative than a 580. Maybe a Radeon VII was better. But, unfortunately, it's already been discontinued. AMD stopped the plane before lift off.

I need a card with H265 support. While many don't like ray tracing, and there are only a few games that have ray tracing support. I really enjoy the ones I play that have RT support.

I could easily bought an iMac. Yes, they look pretty. They are AIO which is good to save space. But the specs, for the price you pay, is really not worth it. I like fixing my own computer, I don't want to take it to an app store. So a guy, sho knows less than me, will have to do a lousy job.

I love macos, but honestly, Mr Cook's strategy is driving me far away from macOS and back to Windows.

You just look like an Nvidia fan and only need features from Nvidia. So Macs and macOS are no longer for you.

 

[Bustycat]

I'm looking forward to Catalina. IMO, it's the biggest update since Apple went from PowerPC to Intel. It's also going to be my first clean install since the PowerPC to Intel transition.

Is it recommended to upgrade to Catalina directly from Mojave? My macOS Mojave is a clean install.

 

[pastrychef]

Is it recommended to upgrade to Catalina directly from Mojave? My macOS Mojave is a clean install.

I don't see any problems with upgrading from Mojave.

It's just that, in my case, I haven't done a clean install since around 2006 and I'm sure I have lots of legacy stuff that probably won't run on Catalina. So, I figured a clean install would be a good idea. Get rid of old 32-bit stuff... OpenGL stuff... etc...

 

[UtterDisbelief]

A lot of good, well thought-out points here

Though I always find the next macOS interesting and exciting, I've become less inclined to be an early-adopter in recent years because we often lose something and only realise later - as @jaymonkey and @pastrychef point out. I have so much expensive OS X software I can no longer use - and yes it's probably 32-bit - but is failing to run for other reasons right now, like just 'bouncing' or crashing on start-up etc.

I went back to High Sierra for my daily-driver because of iTunes but have just 'built' an El Capitan SSD that runs on my Z370 as well. With this to hand I can now run most of my back-catalogue of software when I need to. Funny thing is, it looks pretty much the same as Mojave on first glances. Wonder if I could make it my daily?

I know I'm in a minority for liking iTunes - but I'm still with 12.6.5 so I can manage my iPhone with it. My old eyes are no longer great at concentrating on small screens for long periods.

Garageband has been dumbed-down. Photos is improving slowly but is still not quite iPhoto or Aperture. Pages. Numbers and Keynote have been simplified, losing so much they promised in the earlier versions.

Clearly cut-backs are going on but Apple is so large and wealthy I can't understand why, for example, Aperture was dropped. Surely it fitted-in with their "Pro" series apps for video and music as the photo app.

On the point that Apple are just greedy, I disagree. I was happy to pay for my OS X upgrades each year. It was only £14.99 towards the end. But now it's free for upgrades and no-longer available retail except as Snow Leopard. If Apple were greedy they would carry-on charging for it. Each year millions of dollars would flood in every Fall. They'd continue charging for iWork too. Something else I bought, as was Dot-Mac. All pretty much free again.

It's the mark-up on iPhones that must be the Golden Goose but look at how much Google Pixel, Samsung Note and whatever top-of-the-line phone Sony puts out, costs. It's almost as if they're all saying - if Apple can do it so can we... Trouble is, their phones are rarely as good as iPhones. (In my opinion!)

Catalina though, I'll watch with interest and install too so I can see it 'in the flesh'. I hope it's better than I'm expecting.

 

[jaymonkey]

Photos is improving slowly but is still not quite iPhoto or Aperture. Pages. Numbers and Keynote have been simplified, losing so much they promised in the earlier versions.

Clearly cut-backs are going on but Apple is so large and wealthy I can't understand why, for example, Aperture was dropped. Surely it fitted-in with their "Pro" series apps for video and music as the photo app.

@UtterDisbelief.

I too purchased Aperture, it was a fantastic photo management app and really felt and looked like an Apple Pro App, I was totally baffled as to why Apple dropped it and I've yet to find a true replacement for it.

Cheers
Jay

 

[Gogeta-Blue]

You just look like an Nvidia fan and only need features from Nvidia. So Macs and macOS are no longer for you.

I waited for AMD. But their newer cards, the 5700 series, didn't had any ray tracing support. Also, the cards are still not supported in Catalina latest betas. It's always the same story with macOS, as much as I like macOS.

We always have to wait for drivers support.
So, while AMD fans are enjoying their latest AMD cards on Windows,
Mac users have to wait. No one knows for how long.
Probably, like, 6 months or Catalina .1 or .2.
Who knows.

But Windows users have support for those cards the since day one.
I'm not a Windows fan, but I am realistic, and the truth is the truth.

Also, why do I have to use a mid range cards, because Apple wants me to.
I have a RX 580, and it lacks H265 support.
So what do I have to do use H264 instead?
Also, the encoding speed in that card is extremely slow in macOS and Windows.

So the way I see it is that the card is only good to boot macOS.
The card is useless for gaming. I have to game at low resolution with low settings.

It's not so much that I'm an Nvidia fan. The point is why do I have to use inferior hardware?
Oh, yes! Because Apple want me to.

I rather use crappy Windows but at least I can have a high end system.
Even the new Mac Pro comes with a 580 and a 256 SSD drive.
For the price that Apple is asking for it...those specs are a joke.

Where I stand, LOL , "joke referring to Apple 1000 dollars stand".
I just see the Macs as over price devices with low specs.
Unless you want to spend a fortune, you can get better hardware for less money buying PC hardware and building your own hackintosh.
I'm sure Apple knows that.

If AMD would it come out with a high end card with ray tracing support, then I would have bought that instead.
But it seems that, if we want or need to run macOS, we always are going to have to wait months for GPU support.

Because that is the way that Apple does things.
For me that is unacceptable. I rather take my chances, and, if the Nvidia card is ever supported, fine. If not, then I honestly don't care anymore.

But,I'm not going to downgrade my system.
I'm not going to be swapping cards, and I'm not going to buy a card that is already been discontinued.

So I had no other choice to buy a Nvidia card and probably move back to Windows
after more than 10 years using macOS.
But, at least I can enjoy myself and watch movies and play games with high settings at high resolution.

Once my 2080 Ti arrives, I will sell the useless RX 580.

Trust me, I tried but AMD didn't fulfill my expectations.

Mr, Cook plan back fired just because he made that business decision.
He will continue to lose more macOS costumers.
But he doesn't care because Apple make most of their money from iPhones, iPads, watches, AirPods and services.