Contribute
Register

Mac Studio GPU performance

Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
977
Motherboard
AsRock X299 Creator-1.50
CPU
i9-10900X
Graphics
RX 6800 XT
Mac
  1. MacBook Pro
Mobile Phone
  1. iOS
Hello
Since monday I've been working on Macstudio (M1 Max with 24 GPU cores) at work. I use DaVinci Resolve
I run Geekbench and get a Metal Score of 60000
I was wondering if the score would scale up with the number of GPU cores ?
Do you know Metal Scores for GPUs with 32/48/64 cores ?

My RX6800 XT has a Metal Score of 180000. 3x more :eek:

A side from that what is the Future of Apple Mx GPU compared to the increassing raw compute power of AMD /NVIDIA GPUs.
I can't imagine how they gonna close the gap
Today the trick from Apple is to add hardware neural engine and video encoder/decoder to run Davinci quicker, but I'm not sure it's a good path.

One last thing
Apple GPU performance per watt seem equivalent to NVIDIA's :
With ARM chips, Apple seems to make tiny and silent computers with low power consumption (Laptop usage) but how they gonna replace the Mac Pro ??

Any Ideas ??
Thanks
 
Last edited:

pastrychef

Moderator
Joined
May 29, 2013
Messages
18,685
Motherboard
Asus Z370-G Gaming (Wi-Fi AC)
CPU
i9-9900K OC'd @ 5.0GHz
Graphics
RX 6600 XT
Mac
  1. MacBook
  2. Mac Pro
Classic Mac
  1. iBook
  2. Power Mac
  3. PowerBook
Mobile Phone
  1. iOS
Hello
Since monday I've been working on Macstudio (M1 Max with 24 GPU cores) at work. I use DaVinci Resolve
I run Geekbench and get a Metal Score of 60000
I was wondering if the score would scale up with the number of GPU cores ?
Do you know Metal Scores for GPUs with 32/48/64 cores ?

My RX6800 XT has a Metal Score of 180000. 3x more :eek:

A side from that what is the Future of Apple Mx GPU compared to the increassing raw compute power of AMD /NVIDIA GPUs.
I can't imagine how they gonna close the gap
Today the trick from Apple is to add hardware neural engine and video encoder/decoder to run Davinci quicker, but I'm not sure it's a good path.

One last thing
Apple GPU performance per watt seem equivalent to NVIDIA's :
With ARM chips, Apple seems to make tiny and silent computers with low power consumption (Laptop usage) but how they gonna replace the Mac Pro ??

Any Ideas ??
Thanks

By my estimations, the 32 core GPU in the M1 Max performance is very close to the RX 6600 XT that I had in my hackintosh.

Screen Shot 2022-09-30 at 5.13.29 AM.png

On my hackintosh, I decided to go with the RX 6600 XT due to the extremely inflated GPU prices (at the time) and found that it was more than sufficient for my needs. This ultimately led me to think that the 32 core GPU in the M1 Max would be a good choice for me and I have had no regrets.

Of course, I don't utilize or push the GPU the way video editors or 3D artists would. My perspective is from that of a non-professional view. During the last GPU shortage, I concluded that, often, "enough is enough". The 32 core GPU in the M1 Max allows me to run just about all the emulation games that I play in 4K and that is more than enough to keep me happy. Any additional performance capabilities would be wasted in my hands. Enough is enough for me.

With the passage of time, the capabilities of Apple Silicon will only improve. If you look at M1 vs M2, you can see that it has gone from 7-8 GPU cores to 8-10 GPU cores. I expect this trend to continue as we get newer generations of Apple Silicon SoCs. By the time I outgrow the M1 Max, Apple will probably have M2 Max or M3 Max available and I'll most probably have the upgrade itch by then...

The use of codec encoders/decoders works and it's used by everyone. Look at the IGPUs in Skylake vs Kaby Lake. The inclusion of HEVC encoders/decoders were a huge deal. Besides the inclusion of HEVC support, Kaby Lake saw little to no other real improvements over Skylake but it turned HEVC videos from being slideshows in to smooth, fluid experiences.

The Neural Engines and Media Engines in the Apple Silicon have proven themselves to be a cut above the competitions'. They've even made the old Afterburners that Apple sold with the MacPro7,1 obsolete. We should be looking forward to more improvements from the Neural and Media Engines. As long as the software makers make use of these co-processors, the performance and experience will only continue to improve.

Nowadays, Macs are disposable boxes. Don't worry about upgrades because there won't be any and you won't be able to do any. Shop for what will help you get your job done for the next few years and then upgrade. By the time you do upgrade, the boxes will have far more capabilities and perform much better than what you got a few years ago.

For many, this is a concept that many have a hard time accepting. A lot of people are more accustomed to the concept and ability to upgrade their systems piecemeal. But is that a better alternative? I think it's debatable. Hypothetically, if you have an existing Skylake build, you can upgrade the GPU to an AMD 7000 series or Nvidia 4000 series card, but there would be bottlenecks everywhere hampering the performance of those cards. So then what? Time to upgrade the motherboard and CPU too. If you want to maximize on the capabilities of the new motherboard and CPU, you'd need the new DDR5... Don't forget that if you choose an Nvidia 4000 series video card, you will probably need a gigantic new power supply. By the time, you've "upgraded" enough to modern specs, you've completely swapped out everything except perhaps the case. And you've increased the power consumption of your system significantly. Is this better than just buying a next gen Mac Studio? Btw, what's the resale value of those old PC components vs your first gen Mac Studio?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
977
Motherboard
AsRock X299 Creator-1.50
CPU
i9-10900X
Graphics
RX 6800 XT
Mac
  1. MacBook Pro
Mobile Phone
  1. iOS
@pastrychef
Thanks for your reply
I agree with you, and I don't need upgradability and I don't need Dual GPUs computer

For me : Working computer is new every 3 years and power consumption isn't an issue
In case where money isn't an issue either, a Apple silicon Mac Pro will fullfill my requirements (true reason I'm hackintoshing)

I understand that M3X will have more GPU cores than M2X ... and so on
May be I'm wrong : the diff between M2 & M1 is smaller than RTX 4090 and RTX 3090
And Apple need to boost the GPUs improvement to catch top of the line AMD/NVIDIA no?
And if that happens it will take .... 4/5 years, may be ??

Am I dumb :crazy: ?
 

pastrychef

Moderator
Joined
May 29, 2013
Messages
18,685
Motherboard
Asus Z370-G Gaming (Wi-Fi AC)
CPU
i9-9900K OC'd @ 5.0GHz
Graphics
RX 6600 XT
Mac
  1. MacBook
  2. Mac Pro
Classic Mac
  1. iBook
  2. Power Mac
  3. PowerBook
Mobile Phone
  1. iOS
@pastrychef
Thanks for your reply
I agree with you, and I don't need upgradability and I don't need Dual GPUs computer

For me : Working computer is new every 3 years and power consumption isn't an issue
In case where money isn't an issue either, a Apple silicon Mac Pro will fullfill my requirements (true reason I'm hackintoshing)

I understand that M3X will have more GPU cores than M2X ... and so on
May be I'm wrong : the diff between M2 & M1 is smaller than RTX 4090 and RTX 3090
And Apple need to boost the GPUs improvement to catch top of the line AMD/NVIDIA no?
And if that happens it will take .... 4/5 years, may be ??

Am I dumb :crazy: ?

When you look at the power consumption of Nvidia 4000 series vs 3000, I think it will be difficult for Apple Silicon to keep up unless Apple is willing to throw efficiency out the window like Nvidia did. As good as Apple Silicon is, it can't defy the laws of physics.

Look at the insanity that is RTX 4090. Quadruple slot. Fans on front AND rear.
galax-RTX-4090-front.jpg

galax-RTX-4090-rear.jpg
Source:https://hothardware.com/news/galax-geforce-rtx-4090-with-four-fans-in-render-leak

The fans alone may draw more power than an M1 Mac. Good luck to those who are looking for a quiet build. Btw, how "expandable" is that ATX motherboard when the video card blocks all the PCI-e slots?
 

trs96

Moderator
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Messages
23,320
Motherboard
GA-Z97X-UD3H-BK
CPU
i5-4690K
Graphics
HD4600 / RX 570
Mac
  1. MacBook Pro
  2. Mac mini
Mobile Phone
  1. Android
With the passage of time, the capabilities of Apple Silicon will only improve. If you look at M1 vs M2, you can see that it has gone from 7-8 GPU cores to 8-10 GPU cores.
I haven't used a Mac Studio yet. For a brand new, 1st gen product from Apple, it's exceeded most everyone's expectations. In terms of price/performance it's probably the best Apple has ever offered to their customers. Sure, it looks boring, no exotic design or LED lighting but it gets the job done efficiently. It certainly checks a lot of boxes for me. If the reliability is equal to or better than Mac minis, these should be around a very long time.

I'll keep watching the development and probably buy one once all Intel support gets dropped.
 

trs96

Moderator
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Messages
23,320
Motherboard
GA-Z97X-UD3H-BK
CPU
i5-4690K
Graphics
HD4600 / RX 570
Mac
  1. MacBook Pro
  2. Mac mini
Mobile Phone
  1. Android
@pastrychef isn't the only complaint you've had about your Mac Studio related to the fact there's no dust filtration ? And you fixed that rather easily ? I think that the Apple engineers work in places with no dust, hepa air filtration, pretty much a clean room environment. Filtering dust doesn't even cross their minds.
 

pastrychef

Moderator
Joined
May 29, 2013
Messages
18,685
Motherboard
Asus Z370-G Gaming (Wi-Fi AC)
CPU
i9-9900K OC'd @ 5.0GHz
Graphics
RX 6600 XT
Mac
  1. MacBook
  2. Mac Pro
Classic Mac
  1. iBook
  2. Power Mac
  3. PowerBook
Mobile Phone
  1. iOS
@pastrychef isn't the only complaint you've had about your Mac Studio related to the fact there's no dust filtration ? And you fixed that rather easily ? I think that the Apple engineers work in places with no dust, hepa air filtration, pretty much a clean room environment. Filtering dust doesn't even cross their minds.

Yeah. The solution I came up with seems to be working well. I've taken apart iMacs that had been in service for a few years and seen the mess that builds up over time. I wanted to do whatever I could to avoid that. One thing working in the Mac Studios' favor is that the fans run at a relatively low RPM and probably don't suck up air like the old Intel iMacs which should result is less debris building up inside.

Btw, I was reading the MacRumors forum and one guy had a really good idea... He put his entire Mac mini in panty hose. It didn't obstruct airflow and filtered very well. On a Mac Studio, you'd probably end up sacrificing use of the front USB/Thunderbolt ports and SD slot but if that's not a big deal to you, it should work great.
 

UtterDisbelief

Moderator
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
8,305
Motherboard
Gigabyte Z590i Aorus Ultra - OC 0.8.0
CPU
i5-10600k
Graphics
Dell RX560
Mac
  1. iMac
  2. Mac mini
Classic Mac
  1. eMac
  2. iBook
Mobile Phone
  1. iOS
Also, I think a Professionals view that power consumption doesn't matter, is a mistaken one. Imagine the power usage of a conventional render-farm and why Mac Minis have become popular "battery hens" because of their miniscule power requirements and low heat output.

A 1000+Watt PSU against the Mac Studio stats:

Power.jpg
 

pastrychef

Moderator
Joined
May 29, 2013
Messages
18,685
Motherboard
Asus Z370-G Gaming (Wi-Fi AC)
CPU
i9-9900K OC'd @ 5.0GHz
Graphics
RX 6600 XT
Mac
  1. MacBook
  2. Mac Pro
Classic Mac
  1. iBook
  2. Power Mac
  3. PowerBook
Mobile Phone
  1. iOS
Also, I think a Professionals view that power consumption doesn't matter, is a mistaken one. Imagine the power usage of a conventional render-farm and why Mac Minis have become popular "battery hens" because of their miniscule power requirements and low heat output.

A 1000+Watt PSU against the Mac Studio stats:

View attachment 555531

Those max power consumption numbers are very conservative. Even when deliberately trying to push things to the limit, I've never seen power consumption come anywhere near 100W.
 
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Messages
977
Motherboard
AsRock X299 Creator-1.50
CPU
i9-10900X
Graphics
RX 6800 XT
Mac
  1. MacBook Pro
Mobile Phone
  1. iOS
When you look at the power consumption of Nvidia 4000 series vs 3000, I think it will be difficult for Apple Silicon to keep up unless Apple is willing to throw efficiency out the window like Nvidia did. As good as Apple Silicon is, it can't defy the laws of physics.
Agree. That was the point of the link in my first post
Look at the insanity that is RTX 4090. Quadruple slot. Fans on front AND rear.
View attachment 555525

View attachment 555526
Source:https://hothardware.com/news/galax-geforce-rtx-4090-with-four-fans-in-render-leak

The fans alone may draw more power than an M1 Mac. Good luck to those who are looking for a quiet build.
Agree
Btw, how "expandable" is that ATX motherboard when the video card blocks all the PCI-e slots?
Agreed ...
I saw a Z790 mobo with the 2x PCIe 5.0 x16. if the closest PCIe Slot to the CPU is empty the other one run at Gen5 x16 !!
 
Top