Likelihood of success for a Z370+8700k build NOW?

[thetrystero]

If I were to try to install High Sierra on an 8th-gen hardware on October 5th, what is the likelihood of success? What tweaks can I make to ensure it goes smoothly?
I realize that Apple is not going to adopt coffee lake right out the gate, but I had seen people successfully installing Sierra on Kaby Lake systems prior to Apple putting them in the MacBooks which made me wonder how far this is possible for coffee lake.

 

[trs96]

You would have to spoof the CPU ID of course. Possibly use the I7-7700K ID. Whether the 2 extra cores of the 8700K will cause problems for booting macOS Sierra or High Sierra, I'm not sure. It will take some tinkering on your part to get past the inevitable KPs you'll get with new hardware that is not supported. The on chip graphics of the I7-8700K are HD630 so those are already supported. Other than that, who knows until we have the hardware to test with ? If you buy one this week make sure to document your findings/experiences so that others can learn from them.

 

[kreispendl]

I'm personally uncertain about the 370 platform for the mac, since intel is going to release z390 in the second half 2018.. which coincides with updated macs.. so I'm afraid apple will skip 370 completly and never fully support it..
I'm also waiting for first brave testers as I urgently need to build a system.. so it's either going to be z370/8700k, x299/7820x, or the safe bet z270/7700k..
let's hope for the best.. coffee lake would be a great cost/performance chip.. if it performs on a mac that is..

 

[LFL]

If I were to try to install High Sierra on an 8th-gen hardware on October 5th, what is the likelihood of success? What tweaks can I make to ensure it goes smoothly?
I realize that Apple is not going to adopt coffee lake right out the gate, but I had seen people successfully installing Sierra on Kaby Lake systems prior to Apple putting them in the MacBooks which made me wonder how far this is possible for coffee lake.

There's been posts on ****** about success in a z370+8700 (not 8700k, but I guess it is the same)

 

[bulangat]

I'm personally uncertain about the 370 platform for the mac, since intel is going to release z390 in the second half 2018.. which coincides with updated macs.. so I'm afraid apple will skip 370 completly and never fully support it..
I'm also waiting for first brave testers as I urgently need to build a system.. so it's either going to be z370/8700k, x299/7820x, or the safe bet z270/7700k..
let's hope for the best.. coffee lake would be a great cost/performance chip.. if it performs on a mac that is..

Playing the waiting game for technology is pointless.
By the time second half of 2018 turns up, there'll be something else on the horizon.If you built a Kaby Lake today, you'd be blown away by its performance and you'd get at least 7 years good use out of it, provided nothing burns.
I'm still using a core 2 duo built in 2010. Admittedly, I'm lurking on tonymacx86 again at the moment because I'm looking to build a newer, faster model.
I think I'm going to go for a Kaby.

 

[Baltus]

Good to hear! (But I get an error when clicking on your link...)
"tonymacx86.com - Error"

 

[UtterDisbelief]

You would have to spoof the CPU ID of course. Possibly use the I7-7700K ID. Whether the 2 extra cores of the 8700K will cause problems for booting macOS Sierra or High Sierra, I'm not sure. It will take some tinkering on your part to get past the inevitable KPs you'll get with new hardware that is not supported. The on chip graphics of the I7-8700K are HD630 so those are already supported. Other than that, who knows until we have the hardware to test with ? If you buy one this week make sure to document your findings/experiences so that others can learn from them.

Could the OP spoof a CPU ID from one of the Mac Pro Xeons? More cores etc.?

Must admit I'm no expert though; I just like the idea. Seeing that the new iMac Pro will only have 2600Mhz DDR4 memory (even though ECC) makes me think we have a lot to offer in the Hackintosh world. My own basic build has 3000Mhz DDR4 RAM and the motherboard goes way higher etc. The Hackintosh scene will still be relevant and the best option for power users I feel.

Sorry if that was a little off-topic, but I also wonder if an 8th generation PC is one of those blind-alleys future-wise, only likely to be any good if Apple support it. And that we don't know right now.

Another thing I've noticed is that most 8th gen motherboards only support 8th gen CPUs even though they share the same 1151 socket. That seems odd. For example check out Gigabyte's specs. No 7th gen support there. Might be fundamental differences in architecture?

 

[bixmix]

Why did the post about a success with an 8700k get deleted?

 

[trs96]

Could the OP spoof a CPU ID from one of the Mac Pro Xeons? More cores etc.?
Another thing I've noticed is that most 8th gen motherboards only support 8th gen CPUs even though they share the same 1151 socket. That seems odd. For example check out Gigabyte's specs. No 7th gen support there. Might be fundamental differences in architecture?

The best CPU ID to use for the Coffee Lake I7-8700K would be that of the I7-7700K. We'll find out for certain once more people complete and test builds.

The reason that Intel didn't allow the use of Coffee Lake chips on Z170/270 is primarily power delivery and overclocking issues. If you overclock a 6 core 8700K on an older 170/270 motherboard it would likely cause many problems. Here's part of a review from Tom's Hardware.

"We know that the existing Z270 motherboards can provide enough power to push quad-core processors, as we see now with the Coffee Lake Core i3 processors, but Intel noted that the additional two cores proffered on the i5 and i7 would require more power."

"Although TDP isn't a direct measurement of power consumption, it is a decent indicator. The Coffee Lake i7-8700K weighs in with a TDP of 95W compared to Kaby Lake i7-7700K's 91W rating. A small increase, sure, but we could see larger deltas during overclocking. Intel says it improved the package power delivery to offset the increased over clocking power requirements for the six-core models, and we will certainly quantify the difference in package power draw during our review. The Coffee Lake processors also support per-core overclocking, a feature that wasn't included in the Kaby Lake era, but they still don't allow for fine-grained per-core voltage or P-State settings."

So Intel and the motherboard makers know that if they allowed 8th Gen CPU owners to use the older boards it could be problematic. There would be some "enthusiasts" doing major damage to their motherboards by overclocking the K chips in their Z170 and Z270 systems. They can't allow just Coffee lake 4 core chips or even the six core non K chips to be installed on the older chipset motherboards and disallow the 6 core K versions at the same time.

Most motherboards have 3 year warranties. All 200 series motherboards are still within that warranty period.

Here's another interesting point made by the Tom's Hardware article.

"Kaby Lake processors will also not work on 300-series motherboards. Intel indicated the decision to eliminate Kaby Lake compatibility was due, at least in part, to requests from motherboard vendors that the company make a "clean split." For motherboard vendors, this removes the burden of adding support for Kaby Lake (and the requisite validation) during a time when most motherboard vendors are already stretched to their engineering resource limits due to rapid fire Intel and AMD launches."

 

[UtterDisbelief]

The best CPU ID to use for the Coffee Lake I7-8700K would be that of the I7-7700K. We'll find out for certain once more people complete and test builds.

The reason that Intel didn't allow the use of Coffee Lake chips on Z170/270 is primarily power delivery and overclocking issues. If you overclock a 6 core 8700K on an older 170/270 motherboard it would likely cause many problems. Here's part of a review from Tom's Hardware.

"We know that the existing Z270 motherboards can provide enough power to push quad-core processors, as we see now with the Coffee Lake Core i3 processors, but Intel noted that the additional two cores proffered on the i5 and i7 would require more power."

"Although TDP isn't a direct measurement of power consumption, it is a decent indicator. The Coffee Lake i7-8700K weighs in with a TDP of 95W compared to Kaby Lake i7-7700K's 91W rating. A small increase, sure, but we could see larger deltas during overclocking. Intel says it improved the package power delivery to offset the increased overclocking power requirements for the six-core models, and we will certainly quantify the difference in package power draw during our review. The Coffee Lake processors also support per-core overclocking, a feature that wasn't included in the Kaby Lake era, but they still don't allow for fine-grained per-core voltage or P-State settings."

So Intel and mobo makers know that if they allowed 8th Gen CPU owners to use the older boards because there would be some "enthusiasts" doing major damage to their Z170 and Z270 systems. They can't allow just Coffee lake 4 core chips or even the six core non K chips to be installed on the older chipset motherboards and disallow the 6 core K versions at the same time.
Most motherboards have 3 year warranties. All Kaby Lake motherboards are still within that warranty period.

Here's another interesting point made by the Tom's Hardware article.

"Kaby Lake processors will also not work on 300-series motherboards. Intel indicated the decision to eliminate Kaby Lake compatibility was due, at least in part, to requests from motherboard vendors that the company make a "clean split." For motherboard vendors, this removes the burden of adding support for Kaby Lake (and the requisite validation) during a time when most motherboard vendors are already stretched to their engineering resource limits due to rapid fire Intel and AMD launches."

Fair comment. Thank you. I hadn't seen the Tom's Hardware articles.

So Kaby Lake is really just a manufacturer-friendly 'refresh' rather than an upgrade. Must admit I don't see any day-to-day real-use advantage in the upgrade from Skylake to Kaby. For me a speed hike from 3.9 to 4.1 Ghz but a temperature rise to go with it. Easily manageable but still apparent.

Using the same socket for Coffee Lake is just cost-saving for the manufacturer then?

So if it is unlikely that Coffee Lake will make it into a Mac any time soon the OP might as well just go old Xeon which many hereabouts have made work well?