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High Sierra working great, HP Probook, few small probs w/SSD, APFS, ?Trackpad?

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Hi.. I've got my main Hacktop upgraded (well, clean install actually) to High Sierra but I'm having a few small probs I'm hoping someone has already had an found a solution to.. I've done searching galore and can't find anything that helped.

A little background.. I originally had El Capitan installed & working great on this machine, I did not want to screw with it until I knew I could get High Sierra running, and it is running well enough it's a keeper as is but I'm hoping to fix a few small things.. I originally installed it to a spare HD using APFS (knowing it was eventually gonna land on an SSD) and later used Carbon Copy Cloner to clone it over to a SSD, a Corsair Force GS 180GB.

This machine is essentially a Probook 4540s. Intel HD 4000 graphics, no discrete graphics or switchable crap, 8GB ram, i5-3380m cpu. I've taken the motherboard and various other components and rigged it into the case from a 4730s because I really liked the 4730s (esp the display and huge battery) but the 6-series chipset/HD3000 graphics/Sandy Bridge CPU just didn't do it for me, and I could only get it to work really well with Yosemite no matter how long I screwed around with it. The screen (w/4540 1080p dual-link cable), trackpad, and keyboard are really the only 4730 components, most everything else was transplanted out of the 4540. (Except small stuff like the re-wired power button, etc.). I left the fingerprint reader disconnected b/c I'll never use it and just tossed the webcam instead of trying to run my longer & rerouted Wifi antenna cables around it b/c I'll never use it and IT security paranoia would have me putting electrical tape over it anyway. Oh, and since audio is one of the issues (albeit minor and not important to me - see below - I used the audio/sd reader/trackpad interface board out of the 4540s, I did not rig the 4730s one up. Just wanted to throw that info in there incase the diag files show anything strange and I don't want anyone wondering "why the hell is it showing up/not showing up this on a 4540s?!" :)

I installed it with the guide for installing to probooks via clover UEFI hotpatch with really no problems other than I had to copy my Atheros kext to S/L/E otherwise it wouldn't fire up the wifi until I did a sleep/wake. The other problem I had - which I'm used to - was the volume using the AppleHDA patch was very low - on full barely even audible. The strange part about that is in my troubleshooting I opened up the AppleMIDISetup and when I tested the speakers the volume is fine, but the volume both for the OSX alerts and video files, web pages, etc was crazy low. It appears to be only the internal laptop speakers, if I plug in externals it's as loud as it is off my desktop, although I can't say that with 100% certainly as obviously they have a built-in amp, but I didn't turn the volume up or anything, just took the plug out of the desktop and put it in the laptop. I ended up "solving" that problem with VoodooHDA and upping the "boost" setting in info.plist as I did with El Capitan. I can also make it louder by clicking enhance stereo and turning it all the way up. (If anyone has a way to make that change permanent across reboots I'm listening lol) I'm fine using VoodooHDA, this is almost a non-issue but if anyone's seen this before and has a quick fix I'd rather use as much legit Apple stuff as possible. I can't imagine with how smoothly the install went there isn't something I'm missing to use the patched AppleHDA as I'm certainly not the only one with a 4540s Hackintosh.. BTW the older PBI and the hotpatch method are amazing pieces of work and thanks much to all the developers if you're reading - I've done coding back to Apple II's and assembly but not much on Macs so I appreciate how much work must have went it em and wish I knew more about Mac programming so I could help the community more. (that's a spare time project to learn more about Mac programming.) I've had this audio problem across two 4540s's (one stock and not rigged up at all :) and El Capitan, Sierra, and High Sierra - but no fixes I found with a lot of googling here and on the rest of the net did anything for the volume for me. It's an IDT92HD87B2/4 (ID 111d76d9 rev 0x0107) codec according to DPCIManager. Honestly IIRC this install is the first time audio worked at all w/o VoodooHDA, and I've always had to do some info.plist editing to get the volume up w/that (PCM=100, increase boost level I think.) Trust me, I like to figure stuff out myself if possible - it's all a learning experience even if it doesn't work, I tried!!

The main problem which is more of an annoyance than anything is a delay in booting - unless it's gonna toast my SSD. I tried enabling Trim for kicks, it made it worse as expected, disabled it. It boots real quick as you'd expect from a SSD and then pauses for about 10-15 seconds. This is where it gets a little strange.. The first thing I did was boot verbose hoping to catch what was going on and the delay went away. I added -v to the boot args in config.plist (I don't care if it boots verbose or graphics although I'd prefer the graphics) and now it does the pause about every third boot or so, the rest of the time it boots up quick like you'd expect from an SSD. I can't catch what is causing the pause because it happens right after it switches over from the verbose text to the graphics and the pause happens on a completely black screen, then 10-15 seconds later I get the progress bar flying across the screen and a login prompt. If I boot w/o verbose it does the white on black progress bar, black screen for the pause, then white on black progress bar again (quickly after the pause) and I login and everything works perfect from there. If I boot verbose it does the verbose text, then goes black and if it feels like it the pause, then does the white on grey progress bar and same deal - login and it's fine. In both cases when the second progress bar comes up its at the proper 1600x900 resolution.

I'd like to have TRIM enabled if possible, but I can't deal with that delay, it's like another 30-45 seconds when I boot. If I start over doing the clean install on the SSD and use HFS will this problem be fixed and let me turn on trim? I like some of the APFS features so I'd like to use it but I'm willing to dump it and go back to HFS+ if I can enable trim and not have the delay.. (I understand there's a way to force it not to change your drive to APFS, haven't really looked into it.. could even install to the spinner w/HFS and CCC it over to the SSD.). This is the main reason for this post - I don't want to go installing the rest of all my software and setting up everything how I like it if I'm just going to end up wiping it and starting over anyway. And if not having TRIM enabled is truly going to shorten the life of my SSD and there's no way around that delay it's a no-brainer, I'm going back to HFS+ and even Sierra if I have to. As it stands right now, if I enable trim the HD will boot faster than the SSD, and once I'm booted I don't really notice too much of a difference in speed, but downgrading to the HD is the last thing I want to do.

I also have a Intel SSD in my Elitebook 2570p running High Sierra w/APFS and TRIM enabled, and it boots a little slow (slower than Sierra or El Cap on the same box) but nowhere near as slow as this.. I don't remember how I installed that but it wasn't w/the hotpatch guide I followed for this - I think I did it vanilla or unibeast and fixed things manually. IIRC I've read Intel SSD's are just about the least likely to function OK w/HS and APFS - is this incorrect? I don't want to swap them - gonna be a process re-installing everything on both laptops but if it'll fix it I'll do it if the Corsairs are a known problem and go back to Sierra on the 2570p, I don't use that too much anyway.

The other thing is the trackpad, and I'm not even sure if this is an issue at all or if it's just not going to work and shouldn't. It works fine except all the extra gestures like pinch zoom, three finger swipe, etc don't work. Two-finger scrolling works just fine as does disabling tap-to-click which I hate so I'm fine using it as-is, it does everything it did under El Cap which I used for quite a while.

I've attached all the required troubleshooting files.. I hope.. I followed the post on doing so to a T but the reason I finally found the time to screw with this is I'm laid up in bed with a dislocated shoulder and pain killers for a few days so the head is a little cloudy.. Before I did the F2+F4 at Clover bootup I saved everything that was already in the acpi/origin folder to a "files-from-installer" folder so they didn't get mixed up. And as I don't have AppleHDA running, I ran the command for that against the backup of the kext I made before I let Voodoo screw with anything.

Oh yeah the DVD drive doesn't show up under HS but I haven't even looked into that and don't really care because I can't remember the last time I used it except to boot a linux live CD for diagnostics anyway - but again if there's a setting I've gotta toggle and someone knows it I'm listening.

The only other thing not working 100% is the battery indicator - and I mean just the indicator on the menu bar. It doesn't switch from AC to battery unless I turn battery percentage off/on - but if I open up system info and unplug/replug/refresh it recognizes current power source, battery discharge/charge amps, etc and the screen dims on battery, so the OS definitely knows what the power source is. Again, this one is a non-issue, this thing has a huge battery and I can run it heavy all day before it gets low so I'm not sweating it, I just removed the indicator off the bar.

Thanks for all your help & hard work guys, again.
 

Attachments

  • problem-reporting-burningdaylight-hp4540s-4730shybrid.zip
    2.9 MB · Views: 63
Hi.. I've got my main Hacktop upgraded (well, clean install actually) to High Sierra but I'm having a few small probs I'm hoping someone has already had an found a solution to.. I've done searching galore and can't find anything that helped.

A little background.. I originally had El Capitan installed & working great on this machine, I did not want to screw with it until I knew I could get High Sierra running, and it is running well enough it's a keeper as is but I'm hoping to fix a few small things.. I originally installed it to a spare HD using APFS (knowing it was eventually gonna land on an SSD) and later used Carbon Copy Cloner to clone it over to a SSD, a Corsair Force GS 180GB.

This machine is essentially a Probook 4540s. Intel HD 4000 graphics, no discrete graphics or switchable crap, 8GB ram, i5-3380m cpu. I've taken the motherboard and various other components and rigged it into the case from a 4730s because I really liked the 4730s (esp the display and huge battery) but the 6-series chipset/HD3000 graphics/Sandy Bridge CPU just didn't do it for me, and I could only get it to work really well with Yosemite no matter how long I screwed around with it. The screen (w/4540 1080p dual-link cable), trackpad, and keyboard are really the only 4730 components, most everything else was transplanted out of the 4540. (Except small stuff like the re-wired power button, etc.). I left the fingerprint reader disconnected b/c I'll never use it and just tossed the webcam instead of trying to run my longer & rerouted Wifi antenna cables around it b/c I'll never use it and IT security paranoia would have me putting electrical tape over it anyway. Oh, and since audio is one of the issues (albeit minor and not important to me - see below - I used the audio/sd reader/trackpad interface board out of the 4540s, I did not rig the 4730s one up. Just wanted to throw that info in there incase the diag files show anything strange and I don't want anyone wondering "why the hell is it showing up/not showing up this on a 4540s?!" :)

I installed it with the guide for installing to probooks via clover UEFI hotpatch with really no problems other than I had to copy my Atheros kext to S/L/E otherwise it wouldn't fire up the wifi until I did a sleep/wake. The other problem I had - which I'm used to - was the volume using the AppleHDA patch was very low - on full barely even audible. The strange part about that is in my troubleshooting I opened up the AppleMIDISetup and when I tested the speakers the volume is fine, but the volume both for the OSX alerts and video files, web pages, etc was crazy low. It appears to be only the internal laptop speakers, if I plug in externals it's as loud as it is off my desktop, although I can't say that with 100% certainly as obviously they have a built-in amp, but I didn't turn the volume up or anything, just took the plug out of the desktop and put it in the laptop. I ended up "solving" that problem with VoodooHDA and upping the "boost" setting in info.plist as I did with El Capitan. I can also make it louder by clicking enhance stereo and turning it all the way up. (If anyone has a way to make that change permanent across reboots I'm listening lol) I'm fine using VoodooHDA, this is almost a non-issue but if anyone's seen this before and has a quick fix I'd rather use as much legit Apple stuff as possible. I can't imagine with how smoothly the install went there isn't something I'm missing to use the patched AppleHDA as I'm certainly not the only one with a 4540s Hackintosh.. BTW the older PBI and the hotpatch method are amazing pieces of work and thanks much to all the developers if you're reading - I've done coding back to Apple II's and assembly but not much on Macs so I appreciate how much work must have went it em and wish I knew more about Mac programming so I could help the community more. (that's a spare time project to learn more about Mac programming.) I've had this audio problem across two 4540s's (one stock and not rigged up at all :) and El Capitan, Sierra, and High Sierra - but no fixes I found with a lot of googling here and on the rest of the net did anything for the volume for me. It's an IDT92HD87B2/4 (ID 111d76d9 rev 0x0107) codec according to DPCIManager. Honestly IIRC this install is the first time audio worked at all w/o VoodooHDA, and I've always had to do some info.plist editing to get the volume up w/that (PCM=100, increase boost level I think.) Trust me, I like to figure stuff out myself if possible - it's all a learning experience even if it doesn't work, I tried!!

The main problem which is more of an annoyance than anything is a delay in booting - unless it's gonna toast my SSD. I tried enabling Trim for kicks, it made it worse as expected, disabled it. It boots real quick as you'd expect from a SSD and then pauses for about 10-15 seconds. This is where it gets a little strange.. The first thing I did was boot verbose hoping to catch what was going on and the delay went away. I added -v to the boot args in config.plist (I don't care if it boots verbose or graphics although I'd prefer the graphics) and now it does the pause about every third boot or so, the rest of the time it boots up quick like you'd expect from an SSD. I can't catch what is causing the pause because it happens right after it switches over from the verbose text to the graphics and the pause happens on a completely black screen, then 10-15 seconds later I get the progress bar flying across the screen and a login prompt. If I boot w/o verbose it does the white on black progress bar, black screen for the pause, then white on black progress bar again (quickly after the pause) and I login and everything works perfect from there. If I boot verbose it does the verbose text, then goes black and if it feels like it the pause, then does the white on grey progress bar and same deal - login and it's fine. In both cases when the second progress bar comes up its at the proper 1600x900 resolution.

I'd like to have TRIM enabled if possible, but I can't deal with that delay, it's like another 30-45 seconds when I boot. If I start over doing the clean install on the SSD and use HFS will this problem be fixed and let me turn on trim? I like some of the APFS features so I'd like to use it but I'm willing to dump it and go back to HFS+ if I can enable trim and not have the delay.. (I understand there's a way to force it not to change your drive to APFS, haven't really looked into it.. could even install to the spinner w/HFS and CCC it over to the SSD.). This is the main reason for this post - I don't want to go installing the rest of all my software and setting up everything how I like it if I'm just going to end up wiping it and starting over anyway. And if not having TRIM enabled is truly going to shorten the life of my SSD and there's no way around that delay it's a no-brainer, I'm going back to HFS+ and even Sierra if I have to. As it stands right now, if I enable trim the HD will boot faster than the SSD, and once I'm booted I don't really notice too much of a difference in speed, but downgrading to the HD is the last thing I want to do.

I also have a Intel SSD in my Elitebook 2570p running High Sierra w/APFS and TRIM enabled, and it boots a little slow (slower than Sierra or El Cap on the same box) but nowhere near as slow as this.. I don't remember how I installed that but it wasn't w/the hotpatch guide I followed for this - I think I did it vanilla or unibeast and fixed things manually. IIRC I've read Intel SSD's are just about the least likely to function OK w/HS and APFS - is this incorrect? I don't want to swap them - gonna be a process re-installing everything on both laptops but if it'll fix it I'll do it if the Corsairs are a known problem and go back to Sierra on the 2570p, I don't use that too much anyway.

The other thing is the trackpad, and I'm not even sure if this is an issue at all or if it's just not going to work and shouldn't. It works fine except all the extra gestures like pinch zoom, three finger swipe, etc don't work. Two-finger scrolling works just fine as does disabling tap-to-click which I hate so I'm fine using it as-is, it does everything it did under El Cap which I used for quite a while.

I've attached all the required troubleshooting files.. I hope.. I followed the post on doing so to a T but the reason I finally found the time to screw with this is I'm laid up in bed with a dislocated shoulder and pain killers for a few days so the head is a little cloudy.. Before I did the F2+F4 at Clover bootup I saved everything that was already in the acpi/origin folder to a "files-from-installer" folder so they didn't get mixed up. And as I don't have AppleHDA running, I ran the command for that against the backup of the kext I made before I let Voodoo screw with anything.

Oh yeah the DVD drive doesn't show up under HS but I haven't even looked into that and don't really care because I can't remember the last time I used it except to boot a linux live CD for diagnostics anyway - but again if there's a setting I've gotta toggle and someone knows it I'm listening.

The only other thing not working 100% is the battery indicator - and I mean just the indicator on the menu bar. It doesn't switch from AC to battery unless I turn battery percentage off/on - but if I open up system info and unplug/replug/refresh it recognizes current power source, battery discharge/charge amps, etc and the screen dims on battery, so the OS definitely knows what the power source is. Again, this one is a non-issue, this thing has a huge battery and I can run it heavy all day before it gets low so I'm not sweating it, I just removed the indicator off the bar.

Thanks for all your help & hard work guys, again.

"Problem Reporting" files are incomplete.
Read FAQ, "Problem Reporting" again. Carefully. Attach all requested files/output.
https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/faq-read-first-laptop-frequent-questions.164990/
Use the tool mentioned in the FAQ, that way it is less likely you'll omit something.

Also, please to to state your issues concisely.
 
"Problem Reporting" files are incomplete.
Read FAQ, "Problem Reporting" again. Carefully. Attach all requested files/output.
https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/faq-read-first-laptop-frequent-questions.164990/
Use the tool mentioned in the FAQ, that way it is less likely you'll omit something.

Also, please to to state your issues concisely.
Ok Sorry IDK what I missed but I used the tool and it's output is attached.
I also attached separately "applehda-zml-output.zip" which is the ls -l command from the manual method ran against the backup of AppleHDA.kext I made before I installed VoodooHDA because I'm assuming the tool didn't grab that.
I installed this box following the ProBook guide w/Clover hot patching.

To sum it up.. main issue is the pause w/SSD. Everything else I can deal with. It pauses right after the verbose text output switches to graphics black screen for about 10-15 seconds, with trim off. With trim on (I tried it for kicks because I have another laptop w/SSD+APFS+Trim enabled that boots slower than it did w/Sierra but nothing like this one) it's way worse as expected so I turned it back off. I'd like trim on, but I can deal with it off and the slight pause if it's not going to cause my SSD to crap out early, although it's annoying and I'd like to get rid of it. Booting verbose makes the pause happen every third boot or so - booting w/o verbose it happens every time. If using HFS+ instead will solve the problem and let me enable trim I'll start over as I understand there's a patch that will let you use HFS+ on a SSD with High Sierra but I'd like to use APFS as I've read up & like some of the features of it. The laptop w/o the problem is an Elitebook 2570p w/Intel SSD, this one with the problem is a 4540s w/Corsair SSD. If the Intel SSD's are more compatible I'm willing to switch them but IIRC I've read lots of people having the problem I'm having with Intel SSD's so I really don't want to blow away both laptops and re-install everything just to test it out. Also, the Elitebook I don't use much except for surfing for answers while I'm working on another machine or configuring routers and such so I never bothered to get everything (audio, wireless, trackpad works in mouse emulation mode) working - I don't know if that's part of why I'm not seeing the problem on that one. I'd really like to keep High Sierra on this one but if it's going to shorten my SSD's life w/o trim I'd rather go back to either the HD or Sierra.

Other, less important problem.. I can't get the Audio working at anything but a crazy low volume through the laptop speakers with the patched AppleHDA from the installer. Even with VoodooHDA I still have to edit info.plist and up the "boost" setting and if I want it really loud (well, like normal loud at full volume) I need to go into the VoodooHDA control panel, turn on enhance stereo and slide it all the way up. I'd rather use the patched AppleHDA method. I can only think there's something stupid I'm missing because I've tried everything I can find and I know lots of people use 4540s Hackintoshes. I've had this problem with two different 4540's and El Capitan, Sierra, and now High Sierra. On El Capitan and Sierra IIRC I had to install VoodooHDA to get audio working at all. It seems to only affect the laptop internal speakers, when I plugged in external speakers w/the patched AppleHDA volume was normal.

Other than that.. the trackpad gestures don't work other than two-finger scrolling but I don't know if they're even supposed to or if that's just a limitation of the VoodooPS2 hack. I'm fine with it as is but if they do work I'd like to get them working.

Thanks again, I hope all required info is there this time.
 

Attachments

  • debug_11771.zip
    3.7 MB · Views: 93
  • applehda-zml-output.zip
    1.3 KB · Views: 57
Ok Sorry IDK what I missed but I used the tool and it's output is attached.
I also attached separately "applehda-zml-output.zip" which is the ls -l command from the manual method ran against the backup of AppleHDA.kext I made before I installed VoodooHDA because I'm assuming the tool didn't grab that.
I installed this box following the ProBook guide w/Clover hot patching.

To sum it up.. main issue is the pause w/SSD. Everything else I can deal with. It pauses right after the verbose text output switches to graphics black screen for about 10-15 seconds, with trim off. With trim on (I tried it for kicks because I have another laptop w/SSD+APFS+Trim enabled that boots slower than it did w/Sierra but nothing like this one) it's way worse as expected so I turned it back off. I'd like trim on, but I can deal with it off and the slight pause if it's not going to cause my SSD to crap out early, although it's annoying and I'd like to get rid of it. Booting verbose makes the pause happen every third boot or so - booting w/o verbose it happens every time. If using HFS+ instead will solve the problem and let me enable trim I'll start over as I understand there's a patch that will let you use HFS+ on a SSD with High Sierra but I'd like to use APFS as I've read up & like some of the features of it. The laptop w/o the problem is an Elitebook 2570p w/Intel SSD, this one with the problem is a 4540s w/Corsair SSD. If the Intel SSD's are more compatible I'm willing to switch them but IIRC I've read lots of people having the problem I'm having with Intel SSD's so I really don't want to blow away both laptops and re-install everything just to test it out. Also, the Elitebook I don't use much except for surfing for answers while I'm working on another machine or configuring routers and such so I never bothered to get everything (audio, wireless, trackpad works in mouse emulation mode) working - I don't know if that's part of why I'm not seeing the problem on that one. I'd really like to keep High Sierra on this one but if it's going to shorten my SSD's life w/o trim I'd rather go back to either the HD or Sierra.

Other, less important problem.. I can't get the Audio working at anything but a crazy low volume through the laptop speakers with the patched AppleHDA from the installer. Even with VoodooHDA I still have to edit info.plist and up the "boost" setting and if I want it really loud (well, like normal loud at full volume) I need to go into the VoodooHDA control panel, turn on enhance stereo and slide it all the way up. I'd rather use the patched AppleHDA method. I can only think there's something stupid I'm missing because I've tried everything I can find and I know lots of people use 4540s Hackintoshes. I've had this problem with two different 4540's and El Capitan, Sierra, and now High Sierra. On El Capitan and Sierra IIRC I had to install VoodooHDA to get audio working at all. It seems to only affect the laptop internal speakers, when I plugged in external speakers w/the patched AppleHDA volume was normal.

Other than that.. the trackpad gestures don't work other than two-finger scrolling but I don't know if they're even supposed to or if that's just a limitation of the VoodooPS2 hack. I'm fine with it as is but if they do work I'd like to get them working.

Thanks again, I hope all required info is there this time.

Your ioreg cannot be opened with IORegistryExplorer v2.1.
"Problem Reporting" is very clear on the requirement to use only v2.1.
If you have any other version of IORegistryExplorer installed, remove it.
Then run the script again and attach result.
 
Your ioreg cannot be opened with IORegistryExplorer v2.1.
"Problem Reporting" is very clear on the requirement to use only v2.1.
If you have any other version of IORegistryExplorer installed, remove it.
Then run the script again and attach result.
OK I found the culprit.. I had a 3.something version in a diagnostic tools folder on my desktop that I copy down from my server when I'm troubleshooting. I remember seeing the script even verify the version I had installed (in /Apps) was 2.1 so I don't know why it ran the other version. But I deleted that version, verified I have no other version on my HD and even disconnected network shares just in case.. I ran it again, this time I made sure it opens w/2.1.

Thanks again & sorry for the mistake.
 

Attachments

  • debug_5387.zip
    2 MB · Views: 62
OK I found the culprit.. I had a 3.something version in a diagnostic tools folder on my desktop that I copy down from my server when I'm troubleshooting. I remember seeing the script even verify the version I had installed (in /Apps) was 2.1 so I don't know why it ran the other version. But I deleted that version, verified I have no other version on my HD and even disconnected network shares just in case.. I ran it again, this time I made sure it opens w/2.1.

Thanks again & sorry for the mistake.

You should install on HFS+J not APFS.
Read here:
https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/...n-high-sierra-update-or-fresh-install.232855/

Note: Your files show VoodooHDA.kext which is not used by my guide. But low volume is typical. Some use the Boom app.
 
You should install on HFS+J not APFS.
Read here:
https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/...n-high-sierra-update-or-fresh-install.232855/

Note: Your files show VoodooHDA.kext which is not used by my guide. But low volume is typical. Some use the Boom app.

Thanks a lot. That's pretty much the answer I was expecting although not the one I was hoping for - which is why I wanted to ask before I installed everything else in case I had to start over. I really like some of the APFS features I've read about, but it if's not gonna work on a hack, it is what it is. I rebuilt it today with HFS+J and it works great except the audio. I know VoodooHDA isn't in your guide - that was just the last resort to get some sound up and the only deviation from the guide. (I probably should have made that post before I went there but something something hindsight 20/20 :) Thanks for the tip on Boom - It's far from perfect but definitely helps!

Thanks again for all your help, I don't know where you find the time for all of us, let alone the coding.
 
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