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General NVMe Drive Problems (Fatal)

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The TRIM issue arises only if an affected drive is the boot device, and then, only if APFS formatted. HFS+ drives are apparently fine.

With the Samsung 980 Pro 1TB NVMe likely having the TRIM incompatibility in MacOS, I took the opportunity to shift it over to a Windows 10 boot drive.

I ordered a WD Black SN750 1TB NVMe and it should be here today. I’ll use it as the MacOS boot drive. Initially for Big Sur, and then for Monterey.

The whole intent on shifting from SATA SSD’s to NVMe SSD’s was for boot speed and operating speed. To me, it seems the NVMe TRIM incompatibility with some SSD’s would always be an issue regardless of it being a boot drive or storage drive in the MacOS world moving forward. I presume you just wouldn’t “see” the problem if it was a storage drive. But, the problem would still be there; likely reducing write speeds and SSD longevity. Shifting to HFS+ would prevent TRIM implementation for the SSD, but would be contrary to the original intent ——> speed.

I took this opportunity to switch computer cases. In doing so, I moved the Samsung NVMe to the bottom of the motherboard (Windows 10), and I’ll put the WD Black NVMe on the top of the motherboard (MacOS) when it comes in.

I’m always learning. Thanks for all the details and input.

FYI: “Mac OS Extended (Journaled) is also known as HFS Plus or HFS+. It is the file system used on all Mac OS 8.1 and later, including Mac OS X, since 1998.”

Wow! A 23 year old disk format by Apple. APFS was developed in 2017 to take advantage of SSD’s.
 
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trs96

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I ordered a WD Black SN750 1TB NVMe and it should be here today. I’ll use it as the MacOS boot drive. Initially for Big Sur, and then for Monterey.
That drive is the best available for the price at Amazon. It's come down 56% from the original retail price a few years ago. The 500 GB size at $64.99 is even close to many name brand 2.5" sata SSDs of the same capacity.

Screen Shot 16.jpg
 
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That drive is the best available for the price at Amazon. It's come down 56% from the original retail price a few years ago. The 500 GB size at $64.99 is even close to many name brand 2.5" sata SSDs of the same capacity.

View attachment 534928
The problem is that 970 Evo Plus has better perfomance that SN750.. So, why do I need to downgrade my PC when I already have had two 1TB 970+ and two NVMe slots are busy...? What if we build the collective letter for Samsung to update their software?
 

trs96

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What if we build the collective letter for Samsung to update their software?
You could try that. I really doubt that a co. as big as Samsung cares about how their drives work for macOS users, especially those running a hack. Apple doesn't use Samsung drives in Macs any more.
 
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The problem is that 970 Evo Plus has better perfomance that SN750.. So, why do I need to downgrade my PC when I already have had two 1TB 970+ and two NVMe slots are busy...? What if we build the collective letter for Samsung to update their software?
The drives work as expected in previous versions of macOS, it is Apple who needs to revert the change that screws them up now.
 
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FormerUser-400995

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... To me, it seems the NVMe TRIM incompatibility with some SSD’s would always be an issue regardless of it being a boot drive or storage drive in the MacOS world moving forward. I presume you just wouldn’t “see” the problem if it was a storage drive. But, the problem would still be there; likely reducing write speeds and SSD longevity. Shifting to HFS+ would prevent TRIM implementation for the SSD, but would be contrary to the original intent ——> speed.
There are others more knowledgeable who could no doubt explain in detail how and when TRIM interacts with APFS, and why it may be needed. However, as I understand it, TRIM engages only during boot: This lends to the logical assumption that any drive, whether affected by the issue, or not, will have no TRIM interaction when that drive is used for any purpose other than being an APFS formatted boot device.

RFC: Any authoritative comments are welcome, for the sake of general clarification.

I’m always learning. Thanks for all the details and input.
We're always learning. If not learning, we're not living - "Live and learn" - "Nothing will come from nothing", isn't that what they say?!

Please excuse me, my MontyPythonian senses were tingling.

FYI: “Mac OS Extended (Journaled) is also known as HFS Plus or HFS+. It is the file system used on all Mac OS 8.1 and later, including Mac OS X, since 1998.”
Wow! A 23 year old disk format by Apple. APFS was developed in 2017 to take advantage of SSD’s.
There are times I miss the relative simplicity of UFS/FFS; but then the nostalgia clears.
 
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I'm not sure that's consistent with actual discoveries made.
Who knows I was under the impression it started with the upgrade to the newest OS, it is not like I live and die following these things.
 

trs96

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Back in early 2019 the new 970 EVO Plus drives had problems (freezing, crashing etc.) with macOS High Sierra and Mojave. As you know, APFS started with macOS High Sierra. Was it a coincidence problems started then ?
It was only possible to use these drives with macOS after a firmware update fixed the issues. Since no other NVMe drives, at least that I know of, had problems like this, it's obvious that Samsung was at fault then. That was the first incident that told us of compatibility problems with macOS and a specific Samsung NVMe drive.
 
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FormerUser-400995

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Who knows I was under the impression it started with the upgrade to the newest OS, it is not like I live and die following these things.
Well, they know. It's just that many people read these random comments, made in good faith; and believing them to be factual, this can often lead them down the wrong rabbit hole. Cheers.
 
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