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General NVMe Drive Problems (Fatal)

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Me too. Thanks!

Personally, without any knowledge of what is going on at the technical level, it sounds like the MacOS is trying to get Samsung to do something, and Samsung isn't doing it correctly. So I'm not even going to futz around trying to figure out what is going on exactly, because we're trying to predict whether this will lead to problems down the road. However, before this TRIM problem reared its head in Big Sur then exacerbated in Monterey, I was content with my Samsung in Catalina. So who knows what will happen down the line. Maybe after all this, the WD SN750's will have a different problem and I'll have to change that out again.

Maybe @c-o-pr can chime in.
 
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Can you run
Code:
sudo trimforce --disable

If this runs, check to find

"Trim support: No"

under Apple > System Info : System Report

If Trim gets disabled, does it help with boot delays?

If so, fixed
 
F

FormerUser-400995

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OK... here's why I ask about TRIM being "broken" (as in "does absolutely nothing at all") on the 970. What, exactly does that sentence above mean?

The original issue is here:


It says: " On several controllers, such as Samsung, where the deallocation process is relatively slow,
this timeout can be reached very quickly. (snip)

One way to workaround the problem is to increase the timeout to an extremely high value, which at the cost of slow boot times (extra minutes) will ensure that all the blocks are trimmed. "

IOW, at the cost of a slower boot time, TRIM will proceed correctly.

However here: https://github.com/dortania/bugtracker/issues/192 (which links to the original issue)

it describes various SSDs, saying "Working with TRIM broken (can be used with TRIM disabled, at slower boot times, or as a data storage): (snip) Samsung 970 Evo/Pro"

It appears to me that there is confusion stemming from a single comma [after 'disabled'], and thus how you read that sentence.

Sentence: Working with TRIM broken (can be used with TRIM disabled, at slower boot times, or as a data storage):

reading #1: can be used with TRIM disabled, (which will mean you have slower boot times) or as a data storage

(two possibilities: disabled or data)

reading #2: "can be (a) used with TRIM disabled, (b) at slower boot times, (c) or as a data storage

(three possibilites: disable, slow, data)

Reading one means "TRIM does nothing at all except slow you down" (IWO "TRIM is totally broken")
or
reading two means "you can disable TRIM, OR you can accept the slower boot times to get it to work, or you can use it just for data"

Reading number TWO matches the original description of the issue. Reading #1 does not match the original issue.
Interesting. I understood it to mean generally slower boot times when disabled (to avoid the TRIM issue); It's set to standard TRIM by default in OpenCore (-1), and setting to minimal (999) effectively disables TRIM. Disabling TRIM then has the trade-off of being slow to boot (on drives such as the 970 EVO).

That's how I understood it, but I see now, it could be interpreted either way. The best clarification will probably come from the source.
 
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The way to think about Trim support is that it is an inherently compromised feature by which the PC / storage industry does CYA regarding drive performance, especially longevity.

The benefits of Trim to performance are complex and not obvious. IMO Trim is sort of architectural Jim-Jonestown kool-aid, but opinions are like... I wrote up a detailed explanation of the basis for my opinion on another thread.

Rules of thumb:

It you can enable Trim and not suffer a performance issue, you should prefer to enable it.

If you need to disable it because of a performance issue, you should do so as the immediate gain is totally worth the hand-wringing over longevity. Disabling is an appropriate solution for hackintosh users.

If you disable it and have performance issues related to it being disabled, you are experiencing the plight of immature architecture (blame Microsoft) and technology — caveat emptor. If you find this intolerable, why are you doing a hackintosh? Buy from Apple.
 
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A user on first page stated that formatting the Samsung M2 drive from scratch (they mentioned DiskPart on Windows) before clean installing Monterey resolved the boot time issue. Can someone else confirm this? I will try myself but cannot do it before a week or two (a work in progress I have to end before!)
 
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FormerUser-400995

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A user on first page stated that formatting the Samsung M2 drive from scratch (they mentioned DiskPart on Windows) before clean installing Monterey resolved the boot time issue. Can someone else confirm this? I will try myself but cannot do it before a week or two (a work in progress I have to end before!)
I read that too. The user seems quite convinced that he found the solution to world hunger!

Assuming yours is one of the affected drives, his solution might only be temporary. It can take a period of time (possibly weeks, or even months) of frequent to heavy usage before the symptom becomes apparent. If you take the time to work through the posts and follow a few of the more authoritative links, you'll quickly realize it's not quite as straightforward as the user suggests. Cheers.
 
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I read that too. The user seems quite convinced that he found the solution to world hunger!

Assuming yours is one of the affected drives, his solution might only be temporary. It can take a period of time (possibly weeks, or even months) of frequent to heavy usage before the symptom becomes apparent. If you take the time to work through the posts and follow a few of the more authoritative links, you'll quickly realize it's not quite as straightforward as the user suggests. Cheers.
I will try it anyway as soon as I can and will eventually post here what result I got. I use a 960 Pro M.2 drive. My boot time was around 60/90 secondes on Big Sur and is now around 4/7 minutes on Monterey with no other change than updating the OS. This is definitely a pain in my workflow so it will worth the hassle of formatting and reinstalling everything if it solves even temporarily this boot hang. If others have tried this formatting workaround I would be glad to have some feedback.
Of course at some point the replacement of this Samsung drive will become an option but I’m kind of short right now. :)
 
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FormerUser-400995

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I will try it anyway as soon as I can and will eventually post here what result I got. I use a 960 Pro M.2 drive. My boot time was around 60/90 secondes on Big Sur and is now around 4/7 minutes on Monterey with no other change than updating the OS. This is definitely a pain in my workflow so it will worth the hassle of formatting and reinstalling everything if it solves even temporarily this boot hang. If others have tried this formatting workaround I would be glad to have some feedback.
Of course at some point the replacement of this Samsung drive will become an option but I’m kind of short right now. :)
If you really must do that, then a completely new GUID partition table might be better than simply formatting; and let macOS recreate everything fresh. I agree, it's a proverbial pain in the workflow. When you do get another drive, you can still repurpose the 960 PRO for storage (or Linux/Win10), or possibly as a backup destination for Time Machine. So, that's some consolation, at least.
 

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If you really must do that, then a completely new GUID partition table might be better than simply formatting; and let macOS recreate everything fresh. I agree, it's a proverbial pain in the workflow. When you do get another drive, you can still repurpose the 960 PRO for storage (or Linux/Win10), or possibly as a backup destination for Time Machine. So, that's some consolation, at least.
Can you enlight me on what you mean by completely new GUID pt ? I was planing on reformat with DiskPart under Windows to get an empty disk, then with a bootable USB installer to format this empty disk into APFS and fresh install macOS 12. Do you think there is another thing to do?
 
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