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<< Solved >> CPU advise: Intel Core i9 10900 or 10850K?

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10700k or 10900k. Just opinion. I have a 10700k and have zero complaints about it.
Neither is an option for me. I ruled out the 10700K early on, it's not enough of an upgrade from my 8700K. The 10900K is too expensive and does not offer much over the 10900 and 10850K if one is not going to overclock it.
 
Neither is an option for me. I ruled out the 10700K early on, it's not enough of an upgrade from my 8700K. The 10900K is too expensive and does not offer much over the 10900 and 10850K if one is not going to overclock it.
I prefer the 10900k then.

I've had the 10700k since release date . I just put together a 12700k system, but prefer the 10th gen due to long term stability.
 
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Also, what makes the engineering samples different? I have seen them on eBay from Chinese sellers. Not sure if I am comfortable with ordering such a CPU but if it's generally an option it looks like there are some good deals.
Engineering Samples are what it says: Samples, possibly not the final silicon, possibly not operating at final specification. Labelled "Intel Confidential" and not supposed to be re-sold.
Qualification Samples are the same with the final silicon.
ES and QS may require specific motherboards and/or specific BIOS to run. Neither can be recommended for a production machine.
 
Hello, i did more testing on these, it is a very complicated matter.

Maybe overcomplicated.

Overclockers have a spreckity lingity on "boosts" and "cooler points" and "stress" and one hundred finer points of tuning, which loses me.

I see the language all has its purpose if you are designing and marketing gaming kit, but Intel/Asus (at least) also seem smart enough to realize that a successful product will package all these details into an automated mgmt system that lets the parts run out-of-box with a claimed performance, and it all just works.

When was the last time you read anywhere that "my CPU completely died". It's very uncommon parlance outside of extreme clocking. OTOH What happens all the time is the overstressed CPU calculates the wrong answer and crashes, or corrupts some bit of data which these days of mass media you might not notice. The fact is that computing is generally intolerant of wrong calculations, so when it calculates wrong you have to make an adjustment, and Intel has got exceptionally good at this balancing act with superb quality control and attendant binning that lets them offer rich spread of SKUs based on the finer points of the outputs of their fiery cauldrons.

I see there's a history of lingo for tweaking what was once the province of super nerds, OC tweaking is now a routine sector of market: K series parts with well-understood physical limits set in boards with all manner of adaptive juju (Asus AI Extreme blah blah) to run at those limits.

I get that the kit lexicon is very rich with decades of OC tweaking experience that got the market here. I get it's to the taste of nerdy asperger's cases (like me) and that bragging sells kit. Moreover, everyone who designs this stuff actually has to think in these crazy terms to make the adaptive mgmt work, especially given the major premise of letting ignorant end-users arrange the electro-thermal quality of parts and configuration. I get all this.

But there's a paradox: Apparently with this 10900, THEY FIGURED IT ALL OUT. We can all live now in a happy land of flowers and rainbows because unlocked parts are just another part with a 5% build cost premium.

From my point of view of my simple experience with one late-model Asus gaming board and 10900K, the kit does the right stuff to within a hairs width of it's claims: it runs sustained at 4.9 Ghz all core on media transcode, it never crashes, it only calculates wrong when I force it by noodling over certain incantations to push it past spec limits, and it benchmarks in agreement of the experience of literally thousands of other users. All the while in a curious absence of din of complaints that "my CPU just died."

The only bugaboo I've read about (never seen myself) is the AVX workloads are an cliffs-edge case for peak unlocked power, and Intel community acknowledges this edge and provides tools to step back from it. But that's for sciencey workloads which I'm not doing, nor is anyone else I see here.

WRT stress, there is endless handwringing over the additional cost of unlocked parts, but this usually amounts to less than 5% of a premium build. And the people who talk about it most have 3 or 5 prev generations of kit on hand! I guess fretting over the price like haggling at the middle-eastern bazaar; something you are just expected to do... Except — amazingly — the bazaar sells practical magic beans and flying carpets! Remember, this years rug patterns are limited stock. Buy now.

There's also endless handwringing over voltages and temperatures. Well these go hand-in-hand with frequency. The kit is designed to run at 100C or less and will do so all day. The mgmt will control the freq and volts, and the device has a rev limiter. So you just have to feed it proper power and arrange to move 300W of heat across a junction the size of a dime.

What's complicated about that?

As to the picking and choosing and fussing over incremental differences between parts: everybody comes to same conclusion: the xx700 series are always the price/performance sweet spot. Go lower if you lack cash. Go higher if you are workload constrained or want bragging rights.

As to which mainboard supplier is not dorking up whatever generation with some quality control or firmware oversight, it's a rotating circus. I put my money on Asus, but it's a religious matter.

That's my story and I'm... nvm

Re cash handwringing: In states, 10850K is $450. 10900K is $500. Not going to make or break a build. For the 10% cost premium, you can expect a 2% performance premium. So done and done.
 
Thanks, I was hoping you'd elaborate on your findings. :)

Prices are effectively identical at the moment in Germany, either of them hovering around 410-430€. I am basically waiting until I can find a deal slightly below 400€, or a good used offer.

So according to what you write, I really should just get the cheaper one? I am a bit confused about the different TDP ratings and whether or not this has real world consequences when it comes to finding the right settings.

I would value the 10850k slightly more because of what i wrote. I had a client that had performance issues while the cpu was just using 80w - enabling all core turbo to 5ghz moved the power on that same worload reach 100w, and solved the stuttering. Even though with Cinebench the scores were almost the same, with the stock config using 150w (undervolted) and doing 2400 and the MCE setting , crashing with undervolt because of thermals, so needed to dial down the undervolt and getting 230w power consumption and ended doing 2500 points. Solution: keep MCE on, manual limit power to 160w to keep same undervolt and same 2400 score as before, but having more "versatile" boost behavior.

Also, what makes the engineering samples different? I have seen them on eBay from Chinese sellers. Not sure if I am comfortable with ordering such a CPU but if it's generally an option it looks like there are some good deals.

They run 400mhz slower on all bins, same standard voltages, but they end up undervolting a lot more than stock because of this, thus resulting in much better efficiency in the end.
 
10700k or 10900k. Just opinion. I have a 10700k and have zero complaints about it.

I love elaborated, informated opinions. That's the most useful advices.

I had so many people coming with their self built machines or even "professiona built" by some retarded seller for retarded customers with K cpus and B365 motherboard, crappy VRM with massive throttling. But hey, K cpu and also RGB, tha mean it's faster than my engineering sample...
 
Maybe overcomplicated.

Overclockers have a spreckity lingity on "boosts" and "cooler points" and "stress" and one hundred finer points of tuning, which loses me.

I see the language all has its purpose if you are designing and marketing gaming kit, but Intel/Asus (at least) also seem smart enough to realize that a successful product will package all these details into an automated mgmt system that lets the parts run out-of-box with a claimed performance, and it all just works.

When was the last time you read anywhere that "my CPU completely died". It's very uncommon parlance outside of extreme clocking. OTOH What happens all the time is the overstressed CPU calculates the wrong answer and crashes, or corrupts some bit of data which these days of mass media you might not notice. The fact is that computing is generally intolerant of wrong calculations, so when it calculates wrong you have to make an adjustment, and Intel has got exceptionally good at this balancing act with superb quality control and attendant binning that lets them offer rich spread of SKUs based on the finer points of the outputs of their fiery cauldrons.

I see there's a history of lingo for tweaking what was once the province of super nerds, OC tweaking is now a routine sector of market: K series parts with well-understood physical limits set in boards with all manner of adaptive juju (Asus AI Extreme blah blah) to run at those limits.

I get that the kit lexicon is very rich with decades of OC tweaking experience that got the market here. I get it's to the taste of nerdy asperger's cases (like me) and that bragging sells kit. Moreover, everyone who designs this stuff actually has to think in these crazy terms to make the adaptive mgmt work, especially given the major premise of letting ignorant end-users arrange the electro-thermal quality of parts and configuration. I get all this.

But there's a paradox: Apparently with this 10900, THEY FIGURED IT ALL OUT. We can all live now in a happy land of flowers and rainbows because unlocked parts are just another part with a 5% build cost premium.

From my point of view of my simple experience with one late-model Asus gaming board and 10900K, the kit does the right stuff to within a hairs width of it's claims: it runs sustained at 4.9 Ghz all core on media transcode, it never crashes, it only calculates wrong when I force it by noodling over certain incantations to push it past spec limits, and it benchmarks in agreement of the experience of literally thousands of other users. All the while in a curious absence of din of complaints that "my CPU just died."

The only bugaboo I've read about (never seen myself) is the AVX workloads are an cliffs-edge case for peak unlocked power, and Intel community acknowledges this edge and provides tools to step back from it. But that's for sciencey workloads which I'm not doing, nor is anyone else I see here.

WRT stress, there is endless handwringing over the additional cost of unlocked parts, but this usually amounts to less than 5% of a premium build. And the people who talk about it most have 3 or 5 prev generations of kit on hand! I guess fretting over the price like haggling at the middle-eastern bazaar; something you are just expected to do... Except — amazingly — the bazaar sells practical magic beans and flying carpets! Remember, this years rug patterns are limited stock. Buy now.

There's also endless handwringing over voltages and temperatures. Well these go hand-in-hand with frequency. The kit is designed to run at 100C or less and will do so all day. The mgmt will control the freq and volts, and the device has a rev limiter. So you just have to feed it proper power and arrange to move 300W of heat across a junction the size of a dime.

What's complicated about that?

As to the picking and choosing and fussing over incremental differences between parts: everybody comes to same conclusion: the xx700 series are always the price/performance sweet spot. Go lower if you lack cash. Go higher if you are workload constrained or want bragging rights.

As to which mainboard supplier is not dorking up whatever generation with some quality control or firmware oversight, it's a rotating circus. I put my money on Asus, but it's a religious matter.

That's my story and I'm... nvm

Re cash handwringing: In states, 10850K is $450. 10900K is $500. Not going to make or break a build. For the 10% cost premium, you can expect a 2% performance premium. So done and done.


YMMV, but most people that build their own computer either do not even enable XMP and choose wrong motherboard, or they turn XMP asus and have the secondary voltages skyrocket wich ends up instable and gives issue with audio. I learnt this myself with a windows build - asus just set VCCIO to 1.25v and this was causing all the audio interfaces to stutter.

It ends up much more cost effective - and sure more power efficient and longer lasting - to have me build a non K system with the proper tuning than let some random guy build his system with K cpu and run AUTO settings.
 
He is using a Z40 board. A K would be fine.
 
Re cash handwringing: In states, 10850K is $450. 10900K is $500. Not going to make or break a build. For the 10% cost premium, you can expect a 2% performance premium. So done and done.
Thanks for your elaborate response, good perspective on why I should not obsess too much about my decision. I have not considered the 10900K to begin with, so what you write confirms this. I still don't really understand the practical differences between the 10900 and the 10850K, however.
I would value the 10850k slightly more because of what i wrote. I had a client that had performance issues while the cpu was just using 80w - enabling all core turbo to 5ghz moved the power on that same worload reach 100w, and solved the stuttering. Even though with Cinebench the scores were almost the same, with the stock config using 150w (undervolted) and doing 2400 and the MCE setting , crashing with undervolt because of thermals, so needed to dial down the undervolt and getting 230w power consumption and ended doing 2500 points. Solution: keep MCE on, manual limit power to 160w to keep same undervolt and same 2400 score as before, but having more "versatile" boost behavior.
Thanks, now I understand much better what you were saying in your initial post, and it feels like good advise to follow. I am wondering however, since MCE will also work on the 10900, doesn't this all apply to that version of the processor, too?
 
Thanks for your elaborate response, good perspective on why I should not obsess too much about my decision. I have not considered the 10900K to begin with, so what you write confirms this. I still don't really understand the practical differences between the 10900 and the 10850K, however.

Thanks, now I understand much better what you were saying in your initial post, and it feels like good advise to follow. I am wondering however, since MCE will also work on the 10900, doesn't this all apply to that version of the processor, too?

MCE is only on K SKU

The 10900k has 100mhz more than 10850k, using more energy. Should be a higher binned chip. Retail intel CPUS have usually between -40 to -80 undervolt headroom. The onyl 10900k i had was -70. I hade some 10850k do only 45 and some go -80. 10900ES go -90 / - 110
 
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