<< Solved >> CPU advise: Intel Core i9 10900 or 10850K?

[e-troc]

Hi everyone,

Since I find ambiguous information online about whether or not one or the other of these two CPUs might be the better choice, I thought I'd post here and see if any CPU experts can give some guidance. Initially I wanted to go with the 10900F, however decided that I want to have the option to run iMac 20,2 with iGPU in headless mode.

I am going to use the CPU on a Gigabyte Z490 Vision D in an audio workstation (running Big Sur). Rather than overclocking, I am interested in the best performance at reasonable temperatures. I will be using a Dark Rock Pro 4 as cooler. User @WhenMusicAttacks is making a strong point in favor of non-K CPUs here, however I am wondering if this is also relevant if ones actively restricts the power limits on the 10850K.

Any advise appreciated!

 

[etorix]

Based on this testing with the i7-10700/K, if you don't plan to overclock the K and non-K perform within a few % of each other, and a few °C of each other. Just get the cheapest and a good cooler.

Intel Core i7-10700 vs Core i7-10700K Review: Is 65W Comet Lake an Option?

www.anandtech.com

Having the iGPU option on Z490 is definitively worth it.
If temperature is the main concern, 9th generation is perhaps a better option… if you can still find parts.

 

[e-troc]

Based on this testing with the i7-10700/K, if you don't plan to overclock the K and non-K perform within a few % of each other, and a few °C of each other. Just get the cheapest and a good cooler.

Intel Core i7-10700 vs Core i7-10700K Review: Is 65W Comet Lake an Option?

www.anandtech.com

Having the iGPU option on Z490 is definitively worth it.
If temperature is the main concern, 9th generation is perhaps a better option… if you can still find parts.

Thanks, according to that review I suppose I should just get the cheaper one (which might be one or the other at any given time, they are close). Getting 9th gen is not an option since I am set on the Z490 Vision D. My Dark Rock Pro 4 should be up to the task.

 

[c-o-pr]

Hi everyone,

Any advise appreciated!

My experience with 10900 thermals agrees with the post you referenced re WhenMusicAtracks: under sustained full load at 4.9, there's a limit getting all that heat from the die to the cooler. No matter how much air moves though the cooler, the physical junction of the cooler to the processor is a limit. (Per delidding it's not for me, so no comment.)

Save money with the 10850.

I'd get the iGPU whatever. For apps that use it, it counts for much more horsepower than its specs and cost would suggest. I see no downside re overall power perspective, but I haven't studied the matter carefully, so I may be speaking ignorance on this point re power fine point.

Take to heart the other post's point about cooling VRM FETs on OC i9. For a DarkRock4 which I use, the cooler, RAM and VRM heatsinks form a heat well around the socket that CPU cooler airflow doesn't reach, so RAM isn't properly cooled even though air is drawn right over it. If the case fans produce a good through-stream that's prolly enough. My case lets me dedicate a fan to getting air around and across that socket. Think your case through and ensure fans don't compete with each other.

 

[e-troc]

My experience with 10900 thermals agrees with the post you referenced re WhenMusicAtracks: under sustained full load at 4.9, there's a limit getting all that heat from the die to the cooler. No matter how much air moves though the cooler, the physical junction of the cooler to the processor is a limit. (Per delidding it's not for me, so no comment.)

Save money with the 10850.

I'd get the iGPU whatever. For apps that use it, it counts for much more horsepower than its specs and cost would suggest. I see no downside re overall power perspective, but I haven't studied the matter carefully, so I may be speaking ignorance on this point re power fine point.

Take to heart the other post's point about cooling VRM FETs on OC i9. For a DarkRock4 which I use, the cooler, RAM and VRM heatsinks form a heat well around the socket that CPU cooler airflow doesn't reach, so RAM isn't properly cooled even though air is drawn right over it. If the case fans produce a good through-stream that's prolly enough. My case lets me dedicate a fan to getting air around and across that socket. Think your case through and ensure fans don't compete with each other.

Thank you, I'll pay close attention to thermals for sure. I think I have a good airflow in my Define R6, but obviously my current (delidded) 8700K stays much cooler anyway.

I think you are talking about the 10900K though? The non-K version I am considering cannot be overclocked in the traditional sense, and should actually give me less of the problems you describe than the 10850K, right?

 

[c-o-pr]

Ah ys, sry I got unlocked and igpu K/F mixed up... Get K, IMO nothing but upside on performance

 

[c-o-pr]

I'm running 5.x GHz overclocked perfectly stable, XMP RAM at 3600. This Asus does the right thing out of box. Stable but also topped out. Pushing RAM another 200 makes things flakey. There's maybe 1-3% headroom on CPU. Intel and board maker already know where it belongs and it self corrects for V and thermals. I think it's kind of cool, but kind of absurd too. Point is that it works.

Good way to go is get your build stable well under limits, then play with over-clocking to tune.

I'm very satisfied with my CPU / MB / RAM choice.

 

[WhenMusicAttacks]

Hi everyone,

Since I find ambiguous information online about whether or not one or the other of these two CPUs might be the better choice, I thought I'd post here and see if any CPU experts can give some guidance. Initially I wanted to go with the 10900F, however decided that I want to have the option to run iMac 20,2 with iGPU in headless mode.

I am going to use the CPU on a Gigabyte Z490 Vision D in an audio workstation (running Big Sur). Rather than overclocking, I am interested in the best performance at reasonable temperatures. I will be using a Dark Rock Pro 4 as cooler. User @WhenMusicAttacks is making a strong point in favor of non-K CPUs here, however I am wondering if this is also relevant if ones actively restricts the power limits on the 10850K.

Any advise appreciated!

Hello, i did more testing on these, it is a very complicated matter. You can of course actively power limit the 10850k to 150w while also unlocking all core boost. This will actually provide useful in corner situations where you want like 5 cores at 4.6 and 5 others at minimal 1.2 - because the defaults bin would call for a more strict structure and with 5 core load they would be running at somethign like 4.3 all cores. It all depends on the pricing. Usually the 10900 is cheaper than 10850k and they perform same at stock. They usually undervolt around -40/-60 depending on the sample, also higher power limit will alllow lower undervolt as the more current goes through the more it's stressed, and also higher temps will reduce the undervolt headroom just like in overclocking. That's what makes the efficiency soo much better with the 10900es wich runs at 90/100w for 2240 cinebench when paired with a good cooler, with the same cooler allowing around 2500 points at 160w for the 10850k/10900 and 2650 at 240w for the 10900k...more than double the 10900es

 

[e-troc]

Hello, i did more testing on these, it is a very complicated matter. You can of course actively power limit the 10850k to 150w while also unlocking all core boost. This will actually provide useful in corner situations where you want like 5 cores at 4.6 and 5 others at minimal 1.2 - because the defaults bin would call for a more strict structure and with 5 core load they would be running at somethign like 4.3 all cores. It all depends on the pricing. Usually the 10900 is cheaper than 10850k and they perform same at stock. They usually undervolt around -40/-60 depending on the sample, also higher power limit will alllow lower undervolt as the more current goes through the more it's stressed, and also higher temps will reduce the undervolt headroom just like in overclocking. That's what makes the efficiency soo much better with the 10900es wich runs at 90/100w for 2240 cinebench when paired with a good cooler, with the same cooler allowing around 2500 points at 160w for the 10850k/10900 and 2650 at 240w for the 10900k...more than double the 10900es

Thanks, I was hoping you'd elaborate on your findings.

Prices are effectively identical at the moment in Germany, either of them hovering around 410-430€. I am basically waiting until I can find a deal slightly below 400€, or a good used offer.

So according to what you write, I really should just get the cheaper one? I am a bit confused about the different TDP ratings and whether or not this has real world consequences when it comes to finding the right settings.

Also, what makes the engineering samples different? I have seen them on eBay from Chinese sellers. Not sure if I am comfortable with ordering such a CPU but if it's generally an option it looks like there are some good deals.

 

[smoothmove]

10700k or 10900k. Just opinion. I have a 10700k and have zero complaints about it.