Cloning Big Sur possible?

[djbuddha]

Yes, that should work. AFAIK.

Update: it didn’t wipe the EFI folder.

Worked perfectly. Thanks for nothing Apple lol.

Also, unlike my Clover install, Dropbox stayed signed in. The only thing it did was verify some Microsoft Office apps. But all seems normal.

 

[c-o-pr]

Trying their workaround now. Wow Apple, wow. I set it to Legacy Bootable Copy Assistant. ...

Signed system volume security in iOS, iPadOS, and macOS

iOS 15, iPadOS 15, and macOS 11 add strong cryptographic protections to system content with a signed system volume (SSV).

support.apple.com

Note that if the APFS Copy Utility (CCC Legacy Bootable Backup Asst) gets any I/O error, such as media error which I have seen from an seemingly otherwise working Samsung 980 Pro NVMe SSD, the clone operation fails with a cryptic error msg and the target is not usable. The "signing" part of SSV can not tolerate I/O errors, period, which is a good thing, but the poor error reporting may leave feeling that Apple is working against you.

Basically since Monterey, the core OS is verified to be intact and not tampered with or disturbed by errors as supplied by Apple, which like soldered RAM / drives is increasing system reliability. But to old PC nerds, it feels aggravating, like losing options.

You can use CCC Data partition cloner to incrementally backup your account, but if any update is applied since the original bootable backup was made, the target is likely to no longer be bootable, and requires the target to be erased to make another full bootable clone. For this reason, CCC recommends just making Data partition clone and recovering by doing a clean-install of macOS then bringing your user data in via Migration Assistent.

For those with need to recover at short notice, one way to preserve the old style bootable backup is to only update macOS manually on a schedule the corresponds with your willingness to make a full clone, say once or twice a year, so you can keep doing incremental updates of user data to the backup.

If you are using a true Mac overall reliability should be getting high enough that only Data backups make sense because the the most historically failure-prone parts are now solid-state, vetted, and tamper proof.

Like the iPhone, no one's dies any more, it gets lost or broken; the idea of a phone drive or RAM failure extremely unlikely.

CAVEAT: Think through your backup plan according to your risks / needs.

But basically this SSV change is a good thing,

 

[zipb]

Signed system volume security in iOS, iPadOS, and macOS

iOS 15, iPadOS 15, and macOS 11 add strong cryptographic protections to system content with a signed system volume (SSV).

support.apple.com

Note that if the APFS Copy Utility (CCC Legacy Bootable Backup Asst) gets any I/O error, such as media error which I have seen from an seemingly otherwise working Samsung 980 Pro NVMe SSD, the clone operation fails with a cryptic error msg and the target is not usable. The "signing" part of SSV can not tolerate I/O errors, period, which is a good thing, but the poor error reporting may leave feeling that Apple is working against you.

Basically since Monterey, the core OS is verified to be intact and not tampered with or disturbed by errors as supplied by Apple, which like soldered RAM / drives is increasing system reliability. But to old PC nerds, it feels aggravating, like losing options.

You can use CCC Data partition cloner to incrementally backup your account, but if any update is applied since the original bootable backup was made, the target is likely to no longer be bootable, and requires the target to be erased to make another full bootable clone. For this reason, CCC recommends just making Data partition clone and recovering by doing a clean-install of macOS then bringing your user data in via Migration Assistent.

For those with need to recover at short notice, one way to preserve the old style bootable backup is to only update macOS manually on a schedule the corresponds with your willingness to make a full clone, say once or twice a year, so you can keep doing incremental updates of user data to the backup.

If you are using a true Mac overall reliability should be getting high enough that only Data backups make sense because the the most historically failure-prone parts are now solid-state, vetted, and tamper proof.

Like the iPhone, no one's dies any more, it gets lost or broken; the idea of a phone drive or RAM failure extremely unlikely.

CAVEAT: Think through your backup plan according to your risks / needs.

But basically this SSV change is a good thing,

I do not agree. In a pro environment like a musicstudio, you need a bootable backup really fast when the **** hits the fan, and expensive hired musiscians or even celebrities are waiting.

If I have trouble, I can reboot from yesterday's clone of my bootdrive in a minute, if necessary. Cloning is done when I shutdown for the day, I have a CCC script that back-ups everything and shuts down the hack.

I am not going to fumble with new macos installs and migration assistant.

 

[djbuddha]

For those with need to recover at short notice, one way to preserve the old style bootable backup is to only update macOS manually on a schedule the corresponds with your willingness to make a full clone, say once or twice a year, so you can keep doing incremental updates of user data to the backup.

This is typically how I back up. So in actuality upon reading your post, I think this is actually a great thing. When any cloning software spits any kind of error, I usually junk the backup completely and try it again, or use different media. I wouldn't feel secure enough to trust it.

I do not agree. In a pro environment like a musicstudio, you need a bootable backup really fast when the **** hits the fan, and expensive hired musiscians or even celebrities are waiting.

Not saying that you're wrong, I completely understand the need to be ready on a moments notice. In my environment (which is a semi-pro environment) I typically keep 3 backup external SSDs of my boot drive.

1. The base install with all my plugins / keyboard shortcuts. (I update this one as I install software that may break stuff- so I get it working perfectly and only update it on a per-software basis - example: I had to install these plugins from a company I purchased from a few years ago. However I was burned by them before - so I cloned right before my need to install them - once they worked perfectly after a week or 2, I updated the clone) I do use cloud storage to store settings, as well (like Alfred, Karbiner-Elements, FCPX custom shortcuts etc)

2. A clone of the 1st backup so that they're 1:1.

3. A DAILY backup (I run this one after my work day) - I do this for 2 reasons.

- To make sure I'm back online in a moments notice so my clients don't notice​

- To keep good tidy habits on my desktop. I keep everything I need (assets/completed projects etc) on a server and backed up to offline storage so I don't clog my hard main boot drive. This way, when I run the daily backup, it takes about 10 minutes TOPS.​

​

I'm painfully aware of how OCD this is, but as I grow as a content creator in my field (and hopefully online via YouTube which is something I started very recently)- I do this to minimize any downtime. Computers will be computers, and no matter how 'perfect' your install could be, assume the worst can happen at a moments notice, especially if you're making any money. I do have a backup 2019/2020 Macbook Pro (officially it's a 2019, but it has the 5600m from 2020, thanks Apple for confusing us like the USB standard) so if this machine goes completely up in smoke, I can still work in the interim. Plus I have some un-opened 500 GB SSDs waiting to be used because I promise, that daily-backup drive is going to die one day from all the re-writing.

I am not going to fumble with new macos installs and migration assistant.

I felt the same way, that's why I still have my Clover / Mojave install on a separate SSD which boots perfectly fine. If I need to revert to do some stuff, it's just a reboot and smashing the F8 key and I'm back there. But all that being said, Monterey has been solid and I can't believe I'm saying that. There's a few nit-picks and questionable 'Apple-like' decisions (like why I can't re-assign Command-R away from rotating videos and pictures in Finder is beyond me). But I'd take this over my old install any day.

 

[c-o-pr]

Not sure what you don't agree about

Music production kit is notoriously constrained by backwards compatibility, so updates are typically postponed far outside of Apple's release schedule while app SW goes through vetting.

So, a good approach is disable Apple updates, use CCC Legacy Assistant to make bootable clone, then do CCC normal (Data partition only) incremental backups to keep spare up to date. *** FAIR WARNING: VERIFY FOR YOURSELF THAT THIS WORKS DON'T JUST TAKE MY WORD FOR IT

My other points were an observation that Apple is working to make its new kit more reliable, and this is generally paying off with devices that are more perfect appliances. (there are exceptions of course)

To the extent that people have come to expect that their devices are fundamentally unreliable and adapt their working style to this unreliabllity, that's more about conditioning from Microsoft PC than Apple

If you are HW failure averse, esp with $ on line for production schedule, a hackintosh is contradictory choice to reliability going in. So to me you are disagreeing with yourself, but I am a grouch.

 

[c-o-pr]

This is typically how I back up. So in actuality upon reading your post, I think this is actually a great thing. When any cloning software spits any kind of error, I usually junk the backup completely and try it again, or use different media. I wouldn't feel secure enough to trust it.

Yea, unfortunately the Apple APFS Replication Utility (or whatever it's called, I can never recall which is invoked by the CCC Legacy Bootable Asst) doesn't tell you it failed due to a media error, whereas CCC does otherwise inform you. So you just see a failure with a cryptic message that something went wrong and back to square one.... annd due to a full system clone it takes a long time so when it dies it's very anger mgmt. Bombich SW gets grouchy support tickets, makes them grouchy, etc.

 

[djbuddha]

If you are HW failure averse, esp with $ on line for production schedule, a hackintosh is contradictory choice to reliability going in.

Yeah, this is why I keep my MacBook Pro ready and waiting just in case.

My Hack has been pretty solid outside of a GPU issue I was having. But clearly as I posted above, I’m very OCD about contingency plans and have had 100% uptime even with the hiccups that can happen.

Clients are happy, mortgage is paid, and I feel secure. But it costs money to be like this.

 

[zipb]

Not sure what you don't agree about

Music production kit is notoriously constrained by backwards compatibility, so updates are typically postponed far outside of Apple's release schedule while app SW goes through vetting.

So, a good approach is disable Apple updates, use CCC Legacy Assistant to make bootable clone, then do CCC normal (Data partition only) incremental backups to keep spare up to date. *** FAIR WARNING: VERIFY FOR YOURSELF THAT THIS WORKS DON'T JUST TAKE MY WORD FOR IT

My other points were an observation that Apple is working to make its new kit more reliable, and this is generally paying off with devices that are more perfect appliances. (there are exceptions of course)

To the extent that people have come to expect that their devices are fundamentally unreliable and adapt their working style to this unreliabllity, that's more about conditioning from Microsoft PC than Apple

If you are HW failure averse, esp with $ on line for production schedule, a hackintosh is contradictory choice to reliability going in. So to me you are disagreeing with yourself, but I am a grouch.

I've had/used Macs for music/media since 1992(and DEC, PC, Acorn and Atari before that). Some were good/reliable, others not so much. Old and new. I've saved my bacon all these years with proper (bootable) backups. It's not a question if computers will break, but when. If you are lucky, you will have bought a newer/shinier one before that happens (and still have your data available)

IME, a properly built and maintained hack will work just as well as a real Mac for less money, plus upgrades and replacements are cheaper and easier. I have a hack from 2010 with Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion installed. Still works fine. My MacBook Pro from 2011 has a dead GPU and I had to hack it to keep it going. Luckily this MBP can still have its memory, disk and battery replaced by the user. Otherwise it would have been officially dead 5 years ago. (Apple doesn't have spares for stuff older than 5 years last time I asked)

Buying a real Mac is no guarantee for anything. If it breaks, Apple will not rush to your studio to fix things.
They(more likely a pro dealer) may give you a replacement machine if they have one available, but setting that up will be nightmarish because lots of music related software will rely on copy-protection schemes that will be tied to your broken Mac. Most of these can't be copied over. You will have to go online, surrender stuff, get new serials, etc.
If you're lucky you will be able to boot from a backup(no longer guaranteed to work, thanks, Apple) and at least have some of your stuff working reasonably quickly, but that's about it.

Anyway, the way they make it harder for us to make backups/clones/universal boot media is not serving our interests(if you think it does, please explain), but Apple's.