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~Beginning builder: the unusual dual boot/partition question

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Aug 6, 2012
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Motherboard
GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UP5 TH
CPU
i5-3570K
Graphics
GTX 680
Mac
  1. MacBook
If I only have a 120 GB SSD and a 240 GB HDD, where can I install the operating systems and the games to maximize the speed of the games? I am looking to dual boot with Windows. My goal is to play games at their fullest possible capability with my system.

I posted a question like this in the "Buying Advice" board earlier because I haven't actually bought the parts yet, but now I think this might be a better place.

Maybe partitioning the drives like this could work?

SDD HDD
Partition 1
Mac OS X 10.8
Team Fortress 2
Other Mac-native games and apps I want to run at maximum speed
Supporting files for the above
Partition 1
Mac-native apps about whose speed I don't care
Mac-related stored data, like supporting files for the above
Partition 2
Planetside 2 (when it is released)
Other Windows-native games and apps that I want
to run at maximum speed
Supporting files for the above
Partition 2
Windows 7
Windows-native apps about whose speed I don't care
Windows related-stored data, like supporting files for the above


(I would put Windows 7 on the HDD because I don't particularly care how fast that operating system runs—just the games native to it.)

…but I know that I would have to partition the drives first or install the operating systems in a specific order or something, and I want to know exactly what the process is.

Remember, we are assuming I only have a 120 GB SSD and a 240 GB HDD. Please do not tell me that I should "Buy another SSD for Windows 7" unless you are absolutely certain that what I have suggested above cannot be done and further hardware purchase is the only way.

I would really like to pull the trigger on the build, and this is one of the last questions I need to answer.
 
I like your logic but I'm just not sure this will work out. Windows would require some of it's own system files too to run the games which would still mean having to use Robin Reliant parts in your Ferrari shell.

I would split your SSD into two partitions. 90 / 30 something like that. Install all MAC software and games to the one partition. No need to split for slow and fast stuff in OSX, keep it all together.
Leave you HDD as 1 partition and install windows on to it and then use the remainder of the SSD to install your games. Increase the size of your page file too and this may help increase the speed of Windows to support your game (Tune up your Robin)

You'll have to partition in GUID for MAC and FAT or NTFS for windows on your SSD and I think you may hit a wall somewhere by trying to cross the hard drives. If your running a 7200rpm HDD I'd stick with it and in time just upgrade. As you've told me not to say it you must know that's the way hehe....

I currently use my OSX for Music and Video production so I use a SSD for that. I use Win 7 for games and Web-development so I use a separate HD for that. (SSD again) Then I share an HDD between the platforms in NTFS (using Paragon NTFS of OSX) to share iTunes and documents.

I've probably been of no help to you but you made me think about this and if I didn't have the extra HD, that's the way I'd go but be prepared for some tedious issues when trying to split that SSD drive up into different formats. o_O

Hope this helps.
 
Alright. So the bottom line is really "There's no way around it, don't partition your SSD if you don't want tricky problems."
 
Okay, I might have to spend the extra money for a second SSD. I just want to confirm the following:

  • SSD 1 (SanDisk Extreme 120 GB SATA 6 Gb/s):
  • Mac OS X 10.8
  • Team Fortress 2
  • Other Mac-native games and apps I want to run at maximum speed
  • Supporting files for the above
  • SSD 2 (Crucial m4 64 GB SATA 6Gb/s)
  • Windows 7
  • Planetside 2
  • Other Windows-native games and apps that I want to run at maximum speed
  • Supporting files for the above
  • HDD 1 (Seagate Barracuda 7200 250 GB 7200RPM SATA 6Gb/s)
  • Partition 1
  • Mac-native games and apps about whose speed I don't care
  • Mac-related stored data, like supporting files for the above
  • Partition 2
  • Windows-native games and apps about whose speed I don't care
  • Windows related-stored data, like supporting files for the above

Would that work with no/few problems? Was that what you were saying all along?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Okay, I might have to spend the extra money for a second SSD. I just want to confirm the following:

  • SSD 1 (SanDisk Extreme 120 GB SATA 6 Gb/s):
  • Mac OS X 10.8
  • Team Fortress 2
  • Other Mac-native games and apps I want to run at maximum speed
  • Supporting files for the above
  • SSD 2 (Crucial m4 64 GB SATA 6Gb/s)
  • Windows 7
  • Planetside 2
  • Other Windows-native games and apps that I want to run at maximum speed
  • Supporting files for the above
  • HDD 1 (Seagate Barracuda 7200 250 GB 7200RPM SATA 6Gb/s)
  • Partition 1
  • Mac-native games and apps about whose speed I don't care
  • Mac-related stored data, like supporting files for the above
  • Partition 2
  • Windows-native games and apps about whose speed I don't care
  • Windows related-stored data, like supporting files for the above

Would that work with no/few problems? Was that what you were saying all along?

You could make it even one step easier by using a single partition on the hdd, and format using the exFAT format which is compatible with both OSX and Windows. Then bulk storage and non-speed important apps from both OSes can go directly on it.

I think a separate ssd for each OS is a good idea, but to be fair, the speed of the drive will have very little impact on the performance of the games. Load time will improve, but otherwise it is going to be your graphics card, CPU and system memory that determines the performance of play.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thank you very much, people!

Now I need to find out how to do these things. What would be right steps? I'm assuming first is "Follow the Mountain Lion install procedure," but then what?

I mean, should I do anything special during the Mountain Lion install process to prepare for the Windows dual boot as outlined above?
 
Thank you very much, people!

Now I need to find out how to do these things. What would be right steps? I'm assuming first is "Follow the Mountain Lion install procedure," but then what?

I mean, should I do anything special during the Mountain Lion install process to prepare for the Windows dual boot as outlined above?

Installing on separate drives is simple. Connect first SSD and install an OS - doesn't matter if it is Win7 or ML. Shutdown.
Disconnect SSD and connect blank SSD. Install other OS. Shutdown. Connect your other SSD and HDD. Boot to BIOS and make the OS X SSD first in drive boot order.

Other things to consider:
Win7 might install EFI by default on a UEFI based board and you will not be able to boot it from Chimera/Chameleon. When instaling Win7 hit the function key during BIOS post that allows you to select a boot device. You will notice your DVD-RW is listed twice - once as DVD-RW and once as EFI DVD-RW. Make sure to select the plain one - do not select the EFI one.

Win7 will install a separate "System Reserved" partition if allowed to install on a blank drive. This is the icon you must select from Chimera boot screen to boot Win7.
To prevent this, pre-format the drive with some disk utility app. Either the one in OS X or any of the 3rd party disk management tools available.
Win 7 can be installed GUID/NTFS instead of MBR/NTFS if you pre-format the drive.
 
I have questions about the second and third paragraphs.

First: I ordered the GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UP5 TH motherboard, and it says that it has UEFI BIOS. Are you saying that if I allow Windows to install without interruption, Windows 7 may install the original EFI first generation, and that after Windows does so I won't be able to select Windows from the list of bootable partitions seen in the example image below?

http://legacy.tonymacx86.com/wiki/index.php/Chimera#Navigation

So to avoid this, I need to hit the key during BIOS post that allows me to select the boot device DVD-RW, not EFI DVD-RW. But how do I know when to hit the key, and what is BIOS post? These are words that are unfamiliar with me because I have never built a computer before.

Second: please check to see if I have understood what you said. Is the following true?

If I allow Windows to install without interruption on a blank drive, it will automatically partition the drive and after that I will see two Windows 7 partitions in the Chimera bootloader navigation screen (the example image), instead of just one. Only the one marked "System Reserved" will allow me to boot Windows.

This is obviously undesirable—we don't want confusing clutter in the Chimera bootloader screen. So if I'm planning on installing Windows 7 on the 64 GB SSD, I should use Mac OS X Disk Utility to format the SSD ahead of time as GUID/NTFS. This is a format Windows 7 can read, and doing so will prevent Windows 7 from creating the unwanted "System Reserved" partition.

Third: for the big HDD, what are the benefits and disadvantages of the following options?
  • No partitions, entire drive formatted exFAT for both Windows 7 and Mac OS X
  • One partition formatted for Windows 7, one partition formatted for Mac OS X
 
I have questions about the second and third paragraphs.

First: I ordered the GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UP5 TH motherboard, and it says that it has UEFI BIOS. Are you saying that if I allow Windows to install without interruption, Windows 7 may install the original EFI first generation, and that after Windows does so I won't be able to select Windows from the list of bootable partitions seen in the example image below?

http://legacy.tonymacx86.com/wiki/index.php/Chimera#Navigation
That is correct - Chimera/Chameleon can't "see" a Win7 efi HDD. In your BIOS there should be a selection to make for "Legacy" boot devices or "Legacy" boot devices and UEFI boot devices or just UEFI boot devices. Make sure you select the "Legacy" boot devices and UEFI boot devices. This way, both OS X and Win7 will boot.

So to avoid this, I need to hit the key during BIOS post that allows me to select the boot device DVD-RW, not EFI DVD-RW. But how do I know when to hit the key, and what is BIOS post? These are words that are unfamiliar with me because I have never built a computer before.

When you first push the power button to boot up you will see the Gigabyte splash screen. This screen covers/hides the text that is echoing the operations going on during the boot process, known as the "post". You can disable the splash screen in BIOS so that you can see the "post" if you want (I always do this). Generally on the very first screen along the bottom it will show several function key options, one of which is the select boot device option, usually F12 on a Gigabyte board. If you leave the splash screen active, as soon as it appears tap the F12 key several times and wait until a screen pops up that allows you to select a boot device.

Second: please check to see if I have understood what you said. Is the following true?

If I allow Windows to install without interruption on a blank drive, it will automatically partition the drive and after that I will see two Windows 7 partitions in the Chimera bootloader navigation screen (the example image), instead of just one. Only the one marked "System Reserved" will allow me to boot Windows.

This is obviously undesirable—we don't want confusing clutter in the Chimera bootloader screen. So if I'm planning on installing Windows 7 on the 64 GB SSD, I should use Mac OS X Disk Utility to format the SSD ahead of time as GUID/NTFS. This is a format Windows 7 can read, and doing so will prevent Windows 7 from creating the unwanted "System Reserved" partition.​
Win7 will actually create at least 3 partitions if left to itself. An EFI partition, a System Reserved partition and a Windows NTFS partition. The EFI partition is hidden so will not show in the Chimera screen. As I said, the best way to prevent this is to pre-format the drive before installing. If you use OS X disk utility, you can either format the drive MBR or GUID partition table - Win7 will install on either. Then select how many partitions you want, click in the partition you want to install Win7 to, give it a name or leave it "untitled", select MSDOS FAT32 or ExFAT and format the partition. When you then boot with the Windows 7 install DVD and select the drive partition you want to use, click on the advanced button, then the format button. When it finishes formatting, continue the installation as normal.

Third: for the big HDD, what are the benefits and disadvantages of the following options?
  • No partitions, entire drive formatted exFAT for both Windows 7 and Mac OS X
  • One partition formatted for Windows 7, one partition formatted for Mac OS X
Personally, I would split it 2 partitions using OS X disk utility. Format the entire drive GUID, create your partitions and format one OS X Extended (journaled) and leave the other as free space.
Then boot Win7 and use Windows disk manager to format the free space NTFS.

The downside to doing it this way is that OS X can read NTFS, but can't natively write to it - a 3rd party app is needed. Win7 won't even "see" the OS X partition without a 3rd party app like Tuxera.
So, if you want to use the drive to share files from either OS without 3rd party apps, then FAT32 will work for smaller files, but there is an upper size limit. ExFAT can be read by either, but is more easily corrupted.
 
That is correct - Chimera/Chameleon can't "see" a Win7 efi HDD. In your BIOS there should be a selection to make for "Legacy" boot devices or "Legacy" boot devices and UEFI boot devices or just UEFI boot devices. Make sure you select the "Legacy" boot devices and UEFI boot devices. This way, both OS X and Win7 will boot.

Okay, this I think I understand fully.

Win7 will actually create at least 3 partitions if left to itself. An EFI partition, a System Reserved partition and a Windows NTFS partition. The EFI partition is hidden so will not show in the Chimera screen. As I said, the best way to prevent this is to pre-format the drive before installing. If you use OS X disk utility, you can either format the drive MBR or GUID partition table - Win7 will install on either. Then select how many partitions you want, click in the partition you want to install Win7 to, give it a name or leave it "untitled", select MSDOS FAT32 or ExFAT and format the partition. When you then boot with the Windows 7 install DVD and select the drive partition you want to use, click on the advanced button, then the format button. When it finishes formatting, continue the installation as normal.

So I'll use OS X Disk Utility to pre-format my 64GB SSD using a GUID partition table, with only one partition, titled "Windows 7 boot drive."

Now, this next part might be stupid and demonstrate that I don't understand.
I then have to choose a file format for the SSD. The FAT32 format and the exFAT format are the only formats appropriate for an SSD running Windows. (True so far?) Why would someone choose FAT32 over exFAT, or vice versa?

So after I've made that choice and formatted the drive, I will then stop, reboot from the Windows 7 install DVD and select the partition…then click on the "Advanced" button > the "Format" button and format the drive again? That last part you said…

Select the drive partition you want to use, click on the advanced button, then the format button. When it finishes formatting, continue the installation as normal.

…really confuses me. If this is really what you meant, should I use the Windows 7 install DVD to format the SSD exactly as I did with the Mac OS X Disk Utility (for example, with GUID partition table and then exFAT)? And then, the end result will be what I desire: only one partition on the SSD with Windows 7 installed on it, that I can choose at the Chimera bootloader to boot Windows 7 in the future?

Personally, I would split it 2 partitions using OS X disk utility. Format the entire drive GUID, create your partitions and format one OS X Extended (journaled) and leave the other as free space.
Then boot Win7 and use Windows disk manager to format the free space NTFS.

The downside to doing it this way is that OS X can read NTFS, but can't natively write to it - a 3rd party app is needed. Win7 won't even "see" the OS X partition without a 3rd party app like Tuxera.
So, if you want to use the drive to share files from either OS without 3rd party apps, then FAT32 will work for smaller files, but there is an upper size limit. ExFAT can be read by either, but is more easily corrupted.

Now we're talking about the large HDD. Let's say I've installed Mac OS X to the first SSD and Windows 7 to the small SDD, and both are hooked up and working properly. Then, I plug in the HDD and do as you said:
  1. Format the entire HDD with the GUID partition table using Mac OS X Disk Utility.
  2. Create two partitions, and format one as HFS+ (Mac OS X extended journaled). Leave the other untouched, and do nothing more in Mac OS X.
  3. Reboot in Windows 7, and use Windows Disk Manager to format the free space as NTFS.
The reason that we are doing this instead of just formatting the whole thing as exFAT is because both those file systems (HFS+ and NTFS) are less susceptible to corruption than exFAT.

All correct?
 
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