Asus Z690 ProArt Creator WiFi (Thunderbolt 4) + i7-12700K + AMD RX 6800 XT

[Azimuth1]

@CaseySJ @etorix

hi! what do you think of the attached report? From time to time it happens... and I'm also experiencing that when I wake the machine I see the login page and after logon I get a message of "your computer restarted because of a problem"... what's the culprit?

 

[Azimuth1]

@Rag

I'm considering purchasing a new SN850X (4TB) NVMe drive for my external enclosure and moving my current SN850X (2TB) NVMe from the enclosure in to my ProArt and using it as my boot drive. The time is coming that I will upgrade to Ventura and I'm going to start with a fresh install.

How has your SN850X been performing since you updated its firmware? You're using it as a boot drive, correct?
Any issues?

I have one 4TB SN850X with the latest firmware and I haven't had any issue so far. All my NVMe drives are SN850x family's, the Mac one is 1TB and it's working perfectly.

 

[ffjigft]

This is a newly registered CN user, and I'm excited to share "my progress", cause this would definitely help those Thunderbolt 1/2 device users (including me) who have been disturbed by the recent BIOS update.

As we know, ThunderBolt 1/2 device, although they would not show up in the Thunderbolt control center, would actually work with Thunderbolt controller firmware version NVM 31. However, in newer NVM 36 firmware, Intel intentionally dropped Thunderbolt 1/2 device support (suck Intel), and the firmware is included in BIOS 2204 (Asus did not mention it until a recent update of release note).

As a Focusrite Clarett 2Pre (Thunderbolt 1?) user, I've been stuggling for over a week seeking for a solution. A flash of SM-BIOS chip (containing BIOS and ME) with SPI-flasher would not help (seems Thunderbolt controller firmware is stored in another chip). In previous posts, I also found a Thunderbolt firmawre update shell efi for the board, but the tool would check firmware version and permits upgrade only. Asus CN responsed that they can only provide firmware flash service if I choose to apply for repair service and send the board to them.

I also contacted Asus HK, and received a response that their engineer would make an attempt. I did not even expected they would help more than Asus CN. However, after about 3 days, I receive the email as following:

The pack (in Google drive and the copy in attach here) includes 3 files ("ProArt-Z690-CREATOR-WIFI-ASUS-9901" in .cab, .cap, .rom). Strangely the version is 9901 (also shown in my BIOS dashboard after flashing, probably just a random name). I'm not sure whether I can flash to other BIOS afterwards (during contact, I mentioned that my current BIOS is 1720 with ME 1735. I don't know if the BIOS is a modification of 1720 or not). As far as I tested, the .cap file works no problem with EZ Flash, my Thunderbolt firmware went back to NVM 31, and my Focusrite interface went back alive!

For me, I probably would not attempt to update BIOS and ME afterwards (in order to mantain compatibility). Regaring Asus HK, I could not appreciate more for their diligence and helpful service.

As they sent the BIOS to me, I think they would not mind me sharing the files publicly. For convenience, I also attached the files here. Hope they would be helpful to more people. Best wishes!

---

Lastly updated of following part: 2023.4.5

BIOS 9901 is basically confirmed as a modification of version 1720 (contains same ME 16.1.15.1735), which indicates that it support 13th-gen intel K or KF processors (non-k CPU were not, as they were not released yet).

Althogh not proved, I'm personally worrying that ME firmware version 16.1.xx.xxxx (contained in BIOS newer than 1720) would cause incompatibility issues in Hackintosh (one reason I choose not to upgrade BIOS). ME seems to be a co-operator of motherboard, with its own CPU and allocated DRAM. ME firmware is stored in SM-BIOS chip with BIOS block. 12th-gen Core platforms suffered from performance and compatibility issues due to the use of new technologies (including DDR5, P-E cores), and new optimization are often added through not only BIOS but also ME (version 16.x). Strangely for Asus 12th and 13th-gen platforms, altough ME is already contained in BIOS image, ME update requires seperate update tool (can be downloaded from official website). Sadly, 16.x ME cannot be downgraded without a SPI-flasher (various 3rd-party software tools tested).

As far as I tested, these operation are allowed:

• Upgrade BIOS to higher version (of course)
• Upgrade BIOS 9901 to 2004 or higher (EZ-flash recognized, but I did not continue for further check)
• Change BIOS 2204 / 2103 / 2004 / 9901 from one to another

This operation is not allowed (without a SPI-flasher):

• Downgrade ME

These operations can be done after a series of operations using UEFI-editor:

• Downgrade BIOS from 2004 or higher to 1720 or previous (restricted by Asus)
• Downgrade BIOS from 9901 to 1720 or previous (upgrade to 2103 first, and downgrade afterwards)
• Downgrade BIOS 2305 to any previous version

Basically you need to what I did:

1. Get a copy of current BIOS and target BIOS (.CAP file from official website is fine)
2. Extract required components with UEFI-tool and IFRextractor
3. Analysis with UEFI-editor, find the location of "BIOS lock" key value
4. Turn the fuction on by modifying BIOS value temporarily with reformatted USB disk and modded efi shell, BUT rename the .efi to "shell.efi" and put it directly into the USB disk (instead of USB:\EFI\BOOT\BOOTX64.EFI by the instrctions from UEFI-editor page)
5. Extract .ROM(raw BIOS image) from target .cap (File->open image file->right click section shown->extract body), and change the suffix to .bin
6. Flash the .ROM file with Flash Programming Tool (FPTW) for ME 16.x

Detailed steps (1 to 4) and necessary tools can be found in the UEFI-editor page (with links to other tools, except FPTW for BIOS with ME 16.0.x, which I found here, and I attached the tool in this post for convenience).

(!!Check this!!!) For BIOS 2103/2204/2305 (as example): if you have current BIOS 2103, then after step 3, you can search "BIOS" in the left-bottom, and find "BIOS Lock". For 2103, it should look like this:

For 2204:

For 2305:

As shown, "BIOS Lock" have "VarStoreName" PchSetup and "VarOffset" 0x1D, enable corresponds to 1, and the lock is enabled by default. According to the instructions, you should type this before you type reboot (Size is 1):

sample:
setup_var_cv VarStoreName VarOffset Size Value

our case:
setup_var_cv PchSetup 0x1D 0x1 0x0

Before reboot, you can read the value for double-check:

sample:
setup_var_cv VarStoreName VarOffset Size

our case:
setup_var_cv PchSetup 0x1D 0x1

For the next boot (only), BIOS Lock would be disabled temporarily, so you can use FPTW for flashing. For powershell:

./FPTW64.exe -f xxx.bin

Warning: the value shown only applies to BIOS 2103/2204/2305!!! If you are using 2103, then you can copy the command code direcly; if not, you should analysis the BIOS by yourself, as the values may NOT be the same!

Note: strangely, IFRextractor fails to read BIOS 1720 and 9901. If you want to change from 9901 to others, you can simply upgrade to 2103, and then apply the example.

If you have questions related, feel free to comment

 

[dehjomz]

This is a newly registered CN user, and I'm excited to share "my progress", cause this would definitely help those Thunderbolt 1/2 device users (including me) who have been disturbed by the recent BIOS update.

As we know, ThunderBolt 1/2 device, although they would not show up in the Thunderbolt control center, would actually work with Thunderbolt controller firmware edition NVM 31. However, in newer NVM 36 firmware, Intel intentionally dropped Thunderbolt 1/2 device support (suck Intel), and the firmware is included in BIOS 2204 (Asus did not mention it until a recent update of release note).

As a Focusrite Clarett 2Pre (Thunderbolt 1?) user, I've been stuggling for over a week seeking for a solution. A flash of SM-BIOS chip (containing BIOS and ME) with SPI-flasher would not help (seems Thunderbolt controller firmware is stored in another chip). In previous posts, I also found a Thunderbolt firmawre update shell efi for the board, but the tool would check firmware edition and permits upgrade only. Asus CN responsed that they can only provide firmware flash service if I choose to apply for repair service and send the board to them.

I also contacted Asus HK, and received a response that their engineer would make an attempt. I did not even expected they would help more than Asus CN. However, after about 3 days, I receive the email as following:

View attachment 564630
The pack (in Google drive and the copy in attach here) includes 3 files ("ProArt-Z690-CREATOR-WIFI-ASUS-9901" in .cab, .cap, .rom). Strangely the edition is 9901 (also shown in my BIOS dashboard after flashing). I'm not sure whether I can flash to other BIOS afterwards (during contact, I mentioned that my current BIOS is 1720 with ME 1735. I don't know if the BIOS is a modification of 1720 or not). As far as I tested, the .cap file works no problem with EZ Flash, my Thunderbolt firmware went back to NVM 31, and my Focusrite interface went back alive! For me, I probably would not attempt to update BIOS and ME afterwards (in order to mantain compatibility). Regaring Asus HK, I could not appreciate more for their diligence and helpful service.

As they sent the BIOS to me, I think they would not mind me sharing the files publicly. For convenience, I also attached the files here. Hope they would be helpful to more people. Best wishes!

Confirmation of what I said months ago, that with nvm36, intel unleashed a buggy mess for Maple Ridge. Glad Asus is aware of the problem. But it is unfair to us users that nvm36 wasn’t properly tested for QA ahead of its release or that Asus didn’t WARN users of the fact that BIOS 2204 will upgrade the nvm, and that the nvm has side effects like disabling support for TB1/2 devices. Or that in my case, with XMP enabled, the tb controller will crash when the system resumes from sleep (if a tb device is physically connected).

As this was a sanctioned bios update from Asus, whether unintentional or not, the net effect of a broken Thunderbolt controller is like malware… but not from a hacker but from the vendor.

The other question I have is: what about nvm38 for z790? In my testing, the same buggy mess that we experienced with z690 nvm36 is also present in nvm38. At least for z690 it appears we can downgrade back to nvm31. But what about z790? For those experiencing problems there’s no nvm to downgrade back to…

 

[CaseySJ]

@CaseySJ @etorix

hi! what do you think of the attached report? From time to time it happens... and I'm also experiencing that when I wake the machine I see the login page and after logon I get a message of "your computer restarted because of a problem"... what's the culprit?

This type of problem requires characterization:

• How long has the system been functioning properly?
• When did this problem first occur?
• What changes took place during that time? New software? New hardware? New drivers?
• How many sleep/wake cycles pass before this happens?
• Are there any other warnings or strange effects in macOS?
• Which version of macOS?
• Which version of BIOS?

 

[CaseySJ]

This is a newly registered CN user, and I'm excited to share "my progress", cause this would definitely help those Thunderbolt 1/2 device users (including me) who have been disturbed by the recent BIOS update.

...

As they sent the BIOS to me, I think they would not mind me sharing the files publicly. For convenience, I also attached the files here. Hope they would be helpful to more people. Best wishes!

Hello @ffjigft,

Welcome to the forum, and thank you for providing this BIOS! This will help all users who have TB 1 and TB 2 devices.

 

[gandem]

Confirmation of what I said months ago, that with nvm36, intel unleashed a buggy mess for Maple Ridge. Glad Asus is aware of the problem. But it is unfair to us users that nvm36 wasn’t properly tested for QA ahead of its release or that Asus didn’t WARN users of the fact that BIOS 2204 will upgrade the nvm, and that the nvm has side effects like disabling support for TB1/2 devices. Or that in my case, with XMP enabled, the tb controller will crash when the system resumes from sleep (if a tb device is physically connected).

As this was a sanctioned bios update from Asus, whether unintentional or not, the net effect of a broken Thunderbolt controller is like malware… but not from a hacker but from the vendor.

The other question I have is: what about nvm38 for z790? In my testing, the same buggy mess that we experienced with z690 nvm36 is also present in nvm38. At least for z690 it appears we can downgrade back to nvm31. But what about z790? For those experiencing problems there’s no nvm to downgrade back to…

Maybe with the slowing of BIOS releases for Z690, ASUS is taking the extra time to more thoroughly find any bugs. The fact that they released a special BIOS to downgrade NVM firmware seems like a backhanded acknowledgment of issues. I'm not really an optimist at heart, but there's always hope.

 

[gandem]

@CaseySJ,
Speaking of hope... any reason for hope on the Thunderbolt bus front?

 

[ffjigft]

Confirmation of what I said months ago, that with nvm36, intel unleashed a buggy mess for Maple Ridge. Glad Asus is aware of the problem. But it is unfair to us users that nvm36 wasn’t properly tested for QA ahead of its release or that Asus didn’t WARN users of the fact that BIOS 2204 will upgrade the nvm, and that the nvm has side effects like disabling support for TB1/2 devices. Or that in my case, with XMP enabled, the tb controller will crash when the system resumes from sleep (if a tb device is physically connected).

As this was a sanctioned bios update from Asus, whether unintentional or not, the net effect of a broken Thunderbolt controller is like malware… but not from a hacker but from the vendor.

The other question I have is: what about nvm38 for z790? In my testing, the same buggy mess that we experienced with z690 nvm36 is also present in nvm38. At least for z690 it appears we can downgrade back to nvm31. But what about z790? For those experiencing problems there’s no nvm to downgrade back to…

Some kind of conspiracy by myself:

1. Intel and Apple are contending for the leadership of Thunderbolt standard. Check that in M2 MacBook Air & Pro, Apple uses a new controller labeled "U09PY3" instead of Intel JHL 8040R, the last Intel chip in MBA and MBP13. Quiet clear that Apple want to withdraw from Intel's impact.

2. Intel deliberately damages device compatibility, forcing 3rd party device manufactors to follow Intel's standard, and forcing users to make choices (buy new device with new Intel certification & "Intel Tax").

Regarding professional audio interfaces & adda converters, most of them use Thunderbolt 2 and even firewire 400. Even for Thunderbolt 3 audio interfaces, the situation is still worrying. Among all the manufactors, only Universal Audio stated clear that their Thunderbolt 3 devices would support Thunderbolt 4 in Windows 10 & 11. Antelope audio warned compatibility problems officially. Focusrite devices have been confirmed not working with PC which has Thunderbolt controller embbeded in CPU (Very likely these devices would not work with the rest of Thunderbolt 4 PC with Intel's new firmware).

3. Asus and other motherboard manufactors are forced by Intel to push new Thunderbolt controlller firmware & ME firmware.

If I guessed right, Asus would not offer further support, provide tools for downgrading firmwares on new motherboards (like Z790), as this approach would go against Intel's expectation.

 

[dehjomz]

Some kind of conspiracy by myself:

1. Intel and Apple are contending for the leadership of Thunderbolt standard. Check that in M2 MacBook Air & Pro, Apple uses a new controller labeled "U09PY3" instead of Intel JHL 8040R, the last Intel chip in MBA and MBP13. Quiet clear that Apple want to withdraw from Intel's impact.

2. Intel deliberately damages device compatibility, forcing 3rd party device manufactors to follow Intel's standard, and forcing users to make choices (buy new device with new Intel certification & "Intel Tax").



3. Asus and other motherboard manufactors are forced by Intel to push new Thunderbolt controlller firmware & ME firmware.

If I guessed right, Asus would not offer further support, provide tools for downgrading firmwares on new motherboards (like Z790), as this approach would go against Intel's expectation.

If intel can’t implement Tthunderbolt properly, then perhaps it is time to sunset it and turn development over to a different entity. Titan Ridge worked well enough but Maple Ridge has been very problematic.

Perhaps alternate USB4 implementations from non-Intel vendors might result in improved compatibility and stability.