Asus Z690 ProArt Creator WiFi (Thunderbolt 4) + i7-12700K + AMD RX 6800 XT

[dehjomz]

I haven't been able to coax 802.11ax mode so far, but it does operate at 802.11ac on 5 GHz with no problem.


Regarding 160 MHz, I'm not familiar enough with these frequency designations to say whether it implies capability or lack of compatibility with WiFi 6 and/or 6E.
View attachment 551981View attachment 551980

Some of the channels in the 5GHz wifi band are shared between WiFi and incumbent radar systems like airport and weather radar, military radar, too. These radar systems predated WiFi. So the FCC and other governments decided to establish a mechanism to protect the incumbents from interference from WiFi.

So certain 5 GHz WiFi channels are designated as dynamic frequency selection (DFS) channels. And, if a router operating on a DFS channel detects radar in use, it is mandated to immediately tear down the connection, and go to a different channel and inform the clients to hop to the new channel. This is intended to mitigate interference to incumbent radar systems. This Process of vacating a DFS channel due to radar detection can happen at any time, even if you’re using WiFi to deliver a presentation on a Zoom call!!

But the issue is that to establish a contiguous 160Hz channel in the 5GHz band to get the full 2.4Gbps speed of a 2x2 client like the Intel AX210 , some subset of the WiFi channels necessarily have to be on a DFS channel. One way around this is to use 80Hz+80Hz mode, but many clients don’t support this mode. And apparently, it doesn’t work very well and has been abandoned.

There are only two 160Hz channels in the 5GHz band (the FCC added a third in late 2020, by opening up a portion of the 5.9GHz band to WiFi, but most routers in market don’t support this). So, if you’re using a 160Hz channel in the 5GHz band, if radar is detected, the router will cease using the full 160Hz, and will hop to a channel that isn’t DFS, and, thus, will only use 80Hz. If you live far away from radar, you might never encounter this issue. But if you live close to an airport or the military or weather radar, you’re going to have a tough time with DFS.

The 6GHz band of WiFi 6E and upcoming WiFi 7 have no such DFS restrictions, and you can use 160Hz at full tilt with no interruptions from radar. That’s why I’m looking forward to wifi 6E and 6Ghz. Of course, the best way to avoid all this is to use Ethernet.

Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it. I will have to test and see how it works, perhaps it will be acceptable.

 

[CaseySJ]

@dehjomz,

Very informative.

I'm using a 3-node Linksys Atlas Max 6E mesh router system in order to combat dead zones. Higher frequencies don't propagate as easily through walls and obstructions as lower ones. I started by setting up only two of the nodes, but soon found a glaring dead zone that required the 3rd node to squash.

Curious to know how the massive Asus AXE16000 performs...

 

[ckrueger99]

Corsair launches new Vengeance DDR5 modules. 6000 MT/sec, 6200, 6400, and up to 6600. The 32 GB kits have launched and 64 GB kits are coming soon. The 6200 module has a 36 CAS latency. Price for the 32 GB 6200 C36 kit is $284.99. A significant decline in price compared to similar DDR5 modules (e.g., GSkill 6200 kits) earlier in 2022. They have black ones too.

If this white one was available earlier this year I probably would’ve snapped it up as Corsair RGB patterns are programmed by iCue onto the DIMM, and unlike Gskill, they do not reset to the default RGB rainbow pattern upon a power cycle.

View attachment 551968

Link: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...GEANCE-RGB-DDR5-—-White/p/CMH32GX5M2B6200C36W

These are pretty likely to be SK-Hynix, which is what you want.

 

[ckrueger99]

Can anyone share performance studies for DDR5 with an eye towards what the near future holds

I see this kind of reporting:

DDR5 vs. DDR4: How Much Performance Will You Gain From Today's Newest RAM?

We pitted some fresh DDR5 memory against tried-and-true DDR4 to see what this new kind of RAM will net you on Intel's 12th Generation "Alder Lake" platforms.

www.pcmag.com

So far the desktop perf advantage looks like it does not justify the premiums, with a mere 5% implication for synthetic tests and 2% for actual work.

For system gains, it seems Apple is on the right track with seeing RAM as just one of many levels of a storage hierarchy that's optimized to keeping up the overall value of the kit for its workloads. DDR5 appears irrelevant to the Desktop PC. Apple is improving the right thing: the symmetric multiprocessing capacity of RAM.

So while I enjoy the fun of being on leading edge, I'm at a loss to find an upside of DD5 that rewards the effort.

What am I missing?

In same vein, I think the complaining about the single flash-chip in bottom end Air has been gratuitous and off the mark because with a 256G limit to local storage, you can exhaust the entire drive in 90 seconds of writes, while there seems to be no app that would suffer from the reduction. So what's the gripe? You might just as easily ask why doesn't gen4 flash help more?

PCMag is testing with Crucial DDR5-4800, which is certainly Micron chips. (Crucial is owned by Micron, I believe.) You wouldn't want this. The Corsair DDR5-6000, quoted above, or similar sticks , on the other hand, are almost certainly SK-Hynix. This would have been a better test, likely with a much better than 5% uplift. Pricier, too.
Remember: SK-Hynix>Samsung>>>Micron
BTW, indications that the benefit of DDR5 will be far greater for the coming Raptor Lake CPUs, but can't say whether that benefit will require the Z790 or just Z690.

 

[CaseySJ]

An Interesting Find with macOS Ventura​

In previous versions of macOS, if a USB port map is not specified, macOS will enumerate and enable the first 15 ports, which are:

• HS01, HS02, HS03, HS04, HS05, HS06, HS07, HS08, HS09, HS10, HS11, HS12, HS13, HS14, USR1

We can see that no USB 3.x port (SSxx) is enabled by default.

But with macOS Ventura -- on the Asus ROG Strix Z690i WiFi mini-ITX board -- we get the below ports selected and enabled automatically.

• A combination of USB 2 and USB 3 ports are enabled
• USR1 and USR2 are appropriately ignored (good thing)
• This selection of ports is not ideal, however, and a proper USB port map is still necessary
• Reasons:
  • HS01 and HS06 are bogus, but still enabled
  • HS14 (Bluetooth) is not enabled, hence no Bluetooth

 

[dehjomz]

These are pretty likely to be SK-Hynix, which is what you want.

Yup. I agree. I have Corsair's DDR4 modules for Z490, Z590... was looking to use Corsair DDR5 for Z690, but at the time of purchase there were no Vengeance RGB modules available and and the Dominator series weren't as fast as GSkill's DDR5 6000 modules (which I have). I'll eventually get a Corsair DDR5 kit... waiting on Zen4/Zen5 or Meteor Lake/Arrow Lake before I get another motherboard.

 

[dehjomz]

An Interesting Find with macOS Ventura​

In previous versions of macOS, if a USB port map is not specified, macOS will enumerate and enable the first 15 ports, which are:

• HS01, HS02, HS03, HS04, HS05, HS06, HS07, HS08, HS09, HS10, HS11, HS12, HS13, HS14, USR1

We can see that no USB 3.x port (SSxx) is enabled by default.

But with macOS Ventura -- on the Asus ROG Strix Z690i WiFi mini-ITX board -- we get the below ports selected and enabled automatically.

• A combination of USB 2 and USB 3 ports are enabled
• USR1 and USR2 are appropriately ignored (good thing)
• This selection of ports is not ideal, however, and a proper USB port map is still necessary
• Reasons:
  • HS01 and HS06 are bogus, but still enabled
  • HS14 (Bluetooth) is not enabled, hence no Bluetooth

View attachment 552037 View attachment 552036

Does it still have the 15-port port limit?

Apple is making all kinds of changes with Ventura. They're also adding support for various USB game controllers... might they be bringing better gaming to the Mac?

 

[CaseySJ]

These are pretty likely to be SK-Hynix, which is what you want.

Yup. I agree. I have Corsair's DDR4 modules for Z490, Z590... was looking to use Corsair DDR5 for Z690, but at the time of purchase there were no Vengeance RGB modules available and and the Dominator series weren't as fast as GSkill's DDR5 6000 modules (which I have). I'll eventually get a Corsair DDR5 kit... waiting on Zen4/Zen5 or Meteor Lake/Arrow Lake before I get another motherboard.

I tend to be agnostic when it comes to memory manufacturers. I don’t care one way or another, but I understand why some may want to squeeze a little more performance, particularly in crypto-mining VRAM where Hynix modules, if I recall correctly, can be overclocked further than other brands. Ethereum mining depends heavily on memory I/O, so looking for more overclockable modules is justified.

For desktop use I tried the famed Samsung B-die, but came away unimpressed. It’s more expensive, yet provided no perceptible improvement in my real world applications. It was more for bragging rights than anything else.

These days I tend to buy components that offer the most sane balance between price and performance. As such, I don’t have any i9 CPUs or any 6000+ MT/s DIMMs or even the 6900 XT. I do make exceptions once in a while (i.e. get the urge to splurge), but only once in a loooong while! Today’s fastest components become tomorrow’s entry level anyway.

 

[dehjomz]

I tend to be agnostic when it comes to memory manufacturers. I don’t care one way or another, but I understand why some may want to squeeze a little more performance, particularly in crypto-mining VRAM where Hynix modules, if I recall correctly, can be overclocked further than other brands. Ethereum mining depends heavily on memory I/O, so looking for more overclockable modules is justified.

For desktop use I tried the famed Samsung B-die, but came away unimpressed. It’s more expensive, yet provided no perceptible improvement in my real world applications. It was more for bragging rights than anything else.

These days I tend to buy components that offer the most sane balance between price and performance. As such, I don’t have any i9 CPUs or any 6000+ MT/s DIMMs or even the 6900 XT. I do make exceptions once in a while (i.e. get the urge to splurge), but only once in a loooong while! Today’s fastest components become tomorrow’s entry level anyway.

Agreed. The i7 13700k will have the same cpu core count as the i9 12900k (8P + 8E). 12900k ~ $549, 13700k ~ likely $449 or less.

 

[CaseySJ]

Agreed. The i7 13700k will have the same cpu core count as the i9 12900k (8P + 8E). 12900k ~ $549, 13700k ~ likely $449 or less.

And within 12 months or so.