- Joined
- Oct 24, 2013
- Messages
- 1,251
- Motherboard
- Asus ROG Z690 Formula
- CPU
- i9-13900K
- Graphics
- RX 6900 XT
- Mac
- Mobile Phone
I think many of acknowledge that Intel was asleep during the quad core years. An 8700K was barely faster than a 6700K and the 6700K only got slower because of Spectre and Meltdown microcode updates that fixed security but botched performance. Skylake 14nm was a beast for its time. Intel couldn't ramp 10 nm to volume production for several years, they wanted to move before EUV was available for mass production, and used more masks and quad patterning and so forth adding much more manufacturing complexity for its 10 nm process that led to poor yields and they fell way behind.I think there's room for interpretation and I'm amazed at what a gangly strange offering the HX seems to be. HX is in the lurch.
Without OC the HX is hitting 125W+ with a matching GPU for target market. IA can contend with Apple ARM only because of OC, but this means packing 300W+ in a laptop?Intel is doubling down on OC otherwise their latest product seems to be going backwards. But with OC the HX is absurd due to cooling problem.
If Intel is making any progress on power at all, that annoucement will have to come from an OS vendor. But the one that would have asked for E cores prolly just hedged while building their own chips instead. When I see Windows meaningfully touting efficiency, a new dawn will have come, possibly due to light of nuclear armageddon. If Microsoft ever does tout efficiency, you won't want it in the form of a shrunken Intel OC desktop! You'll want something like, you know, Apple is doing.
PCIe5 is in its infancy, and is only offered here for dGPU option, where soldering it into a brick makes no sense. Is gaming actually limited by PCIe? Maybe at 8 or 16K?
HX Thunderbolt (USB4) is not on die? Maybe I misread or didn't grok that... As total aside, does TB have any prospect of doubling or quadrupling wire speed? That will be news that could mean much more to mobile / modular builds than PCIe5, you know, like the way Apple thinks about it!
Yes, RocketLake and 500 series look pretty lame. The shortest running flagship in Intel's history.
But it's a jump to say 600 series is a real achievement because it simply works — I'm playing with words to make a point about how rarified and insular this local scene is regarding taste in offerings. Intel never thought "What if a hackkntosher wants to replace one of our AX modules with a Broadcom?"
I think that if Alder Lake is any sign of the future, and it seems to be, IA is over a barrel. Microsoft cannot offer the needed guidance and will go to grave before making needed changes in thinking. They seriously can't figure out what to do with the Start Menu.
From perspective of Apple users Intel has lost its way. The Mac Studio Ultra qualifies as portable if not mobile by Alder Lakr HX reckoning — Apple should introduce a $600 handle option. At other end of scale, per coming 56 core Xeons, I would like to read the application notes re workloads compared to M1 Ultra. And I'm sure those Xeons are in 2019 Mac Pro pricing zone.
If there's going to be real competition, the time is ripe for a Linux pheonix to rise, but what will such a bird look like? The Framework yahoos are busy building the world's most irrelevant modularity.
it's like PC thinking is back in 1995.
Thankfully crypto-currency is here to usher us into a brave new world of value! Maybe Apple will finally return to clone business and replace the PC entirely as all long-term signs point to DRM-mitigated rental schemes for content.
But Alder Lake finally realizes the 10nm ambitions and is a major step forward from Skylake/Comet Lake and I think that is an achievement. Of course AMD Zen 3 Core design that's built on TSMC 7nm is more power efficient and AMD has done great things with its 5800X3d, stacking cache in the 3rd dimension.
But given where Intel was 2 years ago with 14nm+++++++ and no sign of a working 10nm process, then with Rocket Lake's insane power consumption that was still slower than Zen3 and a step backwards from Comet Lake (which had up to 10 cores, rocket lake only had up to 8), some thought Intel might fold or outsource its chips completely similar to what AMD does with TSMC. So Alder Lake is a breath of fresh air with that backdrop. Yes power consumption is still high under an all-core load but during gaming and idle the power consumption is quite well actually. And the point is 10nm is finally working and has entered volume production. Raptor Lake is coming late this year and represents a further refinement of 10nm. Meteor Lake, Intel 14th gen for 2023, is already booting windows, linux, chromeOS. Intel showed off Meteor Lake at its Vision Day this week... It is Intel's first EUV design and also its first disaggregated design with tiles. The CPU tile is built on Intel 4 (its old 7nm) and other tiles such as the GPU tile are built using a combination of TSMC 5 and 3 nm processes. Intel once announced that its 7nm process (now Intel 4) was very delayed, but it seems to have worked out the bugs and Intel is about to productize and mass produce multi-chip modules based in part on its 7nm in 2023. They're making progress. As they shrink the nodes, power consumption per watt should improve as well. Let's watch and see.
Companies sometimes stumble. AMD stumbled with Piledriver and Bulldozer but it came back. Apple once upon a time stumbled when it fired Steve Jobs and needed a $250M loan from Microsoft to stay afloat. But it came back. Intel stumbled with 10nm and trying to shrink the node without using EUV. But Intel is coming back and I think that sentiment is what we're celebrating. Not that we're absolutely ecstatic with the status quo, but that we're happy to see Intel come back and finally offer competition again. Zen 3 (5950x) vs Comet Lake (10900K) was a bloodbath at first. A competitive Intel will discipline AMD's performance offerings and prices.
For instance, the mighty 5950x used to sell at $850 at Microcenter during the heights of the pandemic and was usually sold out. Even when it was in stock, it was selling above MSRP. Then the 12900K came out and competed extremely strongly in many creator workloads, toppling the 5950x in certain benchmarks like Cinebench and toppled it in terms of gaming. And in the midst of strong competition from Intel, the mighty 5950x declined in price from well over $800 to now $569.99 at Microcenter. That is competition at play, AMD had no incentive to lower prices until a strong offering from Intel emerged. A strong x86 vs ARM will also keep Apple/Qualcomm on their toes to offer great products too.
And in the end, with healthy competition, consumers win.
Last edited: