Apple Announces M1 Ultra CPU, Mac Studio and Studio Display

[pastrychef]

I will be extremely disappointed if @pastrychef doesn't try this and figure it out.

BTW, Apple locking down the hardware and crippling any non-Apple expansion cards?

Apple?

Never!

(Says me, who goes back to tinkering with his 6900XTXH and the 12.3 update)

Lol. I ordered mine with 2TB and it's unlikely I'd need to upgrade any time soon.

 

[trs96]

Says me, who goes back to tinkering with his 6900XTXH

Have you gotten either of your trusty old 780 TIs to work with Monterey ?

 

[UtterDisbelief]

So it's a whole other ball-game?

Apple is not forbidding upgrades, just limiting who can do them. So if in the future you decide your on-board storage is not enough, you may not be able to swap in a third-party SSD but at least Apple can do it for you - at a price. The option is there.

The serialization issue reminds me of the tricks some premium auto manufacturers employ to ensure customers buy official spare parts and have them fitted by official dealers. For example if you want to replace a dud battery in your vehicle you can't just swap in any cheapo battery from a discount store, as I could for my old Toyota (RIP), you need an official one "coded" to the vehicle and registered etc.

Mind you, plug-in modules that can "fix" this situation are available to non-OEM auto dealers, so perhaps some enterprising soul will think of a way to get around Apple's locks.

 

[pastrychef]

So it's a whole other ball-game?

Apple is not forbidding upgrades, just limiting who can do them. So if in the future you decide your on-board storage is not enough, you may not be able to swap in a third-party SSD but at least Apple can do it for you - at a price. The option is there.

The serialization issue reminds me of the tricks some premium auto manufacturers employ to ensure customers buy official spare parts and have them fitted by official dealers. For example if you want to replace a dud battery in your vehicle you can't just swap in any cheapo battery from a discount store, as I could for my old Toyota (RIP), you need an official one "coded" to the vehicle and registered etc.

Mind you, plug-in modules that can "fix" this situation are available to non-OEM auto dealers, so perhaps some enterprising soul will think of a way to get around Apple's locks.

I don't think any of that is true. I don't believe there's any serialization. I think the guy from Apple Insider was fed lies and he believed it.

I also think that a lot of these guys are too concerned about putting the second slot to use. They are equating the inability to use the second slot to not being able to upgrade. They are ignoring the fact that upgrading can be replacing a lower capacity module with a larger capacity one.

 

[UtterDisbelief]

I don't think any of that is true. I don't believe there's any serialization. I think the guy from Apple Insider was fed lies and he believed it.

I also think that a lot of these guys are too concerned about putting the second slot to use. They are equating the inability to use the second slot to not being able to upgrade. They are ignoring the fact that upgrading can be replacing a lower capacity module with a larger capacity one.

I don't know anything about Apple serialization, I'm just working around the concept - now that I've heard about it - in my mind and trying to figure how it could be used.

If we accept that the SoC has the SSD controllers built-in then it's pretty obvious that the SoC can cater for any memory configuration the board can accept. So minimum or maximum storage, all sizes are available.

Apple wouldn't bother to solder on a second slot if it can't be used. Even if it was included for a planned upgrade in future they would just leave the solder pads on the motherboard and not bother with the actual socket.

So ... perhaps as you say we are all being fed lies. But by who and for what purpose isn't clear.

I'm enjoying learning more about the new machine, and a little jealous I won't be getting Mac Studio any time soon!

 

[pastrychef]

I don't know anything about Apple serialization, I'm just working around the concept - now that I've heard about it - in my mind and trying to figure how it could be used.

If we accept that the SoC has the SSD controllers built-in then it's pretty obvious that the SoC can cater for any memory configuration the board can accept. So minimum or maximum storage, all sizes are available.

Apple wouldn't bother to solder on a second slot if it can't be used. Even if it was included for a planned upgrade in future they would just leave the solder pads on the motherboard and not bother with the actual socket.

So ... perhaps as you say we are all being fed lies. But by who and for what purpose isn't clear.

I'm enjoying learning more about the new machine, and a little jealous I won't be getting Mac Studio any time soon!

I have suspected that the second slot is used for 8tb configurations. My guess is that two 4TB modules are needed to get 8TB. So, both slots work in conjunction and the system will see it as a single SSD, not two separate drives.

I just think whomever the Apple Insider guy spoke to lied to him about upgrades and he just spread it further in his video.

 

[UtterDisbelief]

... slots work in conjunction and the system will see it as a single SSD ...

You do realise this sounds very much like the horror that is (dramatic drum-roll) "Core-Storage" !!!!!

 

[pastrychef]

You do realise it sounds very much like the horror that is (dramatic drum-roll) "Core-Storage" !!!!!

No, I don't think it will work that way. Not striped either. Nothing fancy. Just seen in "series".

 

[c-o-pr]

You do realise this sounds very much like the horror that is (dramatic drum-roll) "Core-Storage" !!!!!

Core storage as implemented for fusion drives is a justifiably feared and loathed design. But that's because fusion drives were a horrible idea. I've wondered about it and can only see it as a stop-gap as the industry had to shuck its way through to flash storage. Trim is one of the truly horrible ideas that came along with that clunky transitions—as I have written many words of complaint here. (For those who haven't had previous encounter with my screedling, my view of Trim can be summed up in one simple observation: if the drive benefits from being told when flash pages are no longer needed, well it so happens the drive is told this every time the OS issues a Write. All else is an optimization of some finer point.)

My view of the Studio storage HW layout is that Apple desktops will continue ti trend towards the path of the iPhone. Flash storage is mature and reliable enough that it can be considered a "lifetime of the device" configuration, just as it is on the phone. Apple is in a position to radically cut support expenses for drive bin/sort variances, to offer very predicable and balanced storage capability for the device's target market.

When we observe that the Mac Studio is just 2x the cost of a iPhone Pro, and 1/8 the cost of the original Mac in real dollars, and combine this observation that the market is very, very comfortable with phones turned over on a 5-year or shorter basis, seeing the desktop go in the direction of the phone makes sense.

The question as to what the storage configuration is relative to the system bus (is it even PCI?) will determine if a striped approach is taken. We know that single drive has something like PCI4 x4 from the Studio brag-sheet. What I haven't yet seen is anything about how the storage sockets are bonded to the system bus. Next question is does the second slot get an additional device channel? Moreover, is the storage subsystem a completely proprietary bus between an Apple-designed storage controller and socketed flash modules? Anyone who can fig into this detail will help understanding of performance potentials. It would surprise me if Apple balanced the two halves of the Ultra CPU and didn't carry the balancing act all the way to storage for the 8TB config. We shall see.

 

[LoveAppleTimmu]

Even if this were true, it means that upgrading is possible and the Apple Insider guy is completely wrong.

I still think upgrades can be done by anyone who can get their hands on SSD modules. Just connect the Mac Studio to another Mac to do the configurator DFU restore after swapping modules. I'm sure that's how the guy who upgraded his M1 MacBook Air did it.

Edit:
Btw, it's possible for regular users to serialize blank Mac logic boards. Search Google for "Mac blank board serializer".

I know that some on here canned Luke Miani, labeling him a technically-challenged dumbass, or just clamoring for more YouTube views (second accusation is definitely true, but he is no iJustine). However, both he and ifixit did exactly what @pastrychef describes with the DFU restore, and both came to the conclusion that at this time upgrades are not possible for the end user, DIY style. Have a look at the follow up video that Miani made, where he followed the DFU restore instructions on Apple’s website, and he could not get a Mac studio to accept a storage module of a larger size that came from another mac studio. ifixit came to the same conclusion. And now so has apple insider….

In watching the tech YouTube personalities respond to this, what really surprised me was Louis Rossman’s reaction. He’s totally cool with this. His fans are joking that he’s been compromised by Apple. I guess that from the perspective of a repair shop owner who deals with other Apple BS, this is probably relatively not anti-repair, but from the perspective of your average “DIY Joe,“ who buys a $5,000 computer, and might like to upgrade the parts after 5 years to get more life out of the computer, this is totally anti-upgrade, anti-self service, and like a huge middle finger to that consumer. The average consumer, who wants to use their device for as long as possible, cares about the right to retrofit and the right to upgrade their own technology products just as much as they care about the right to repair. Right now, as confirmed by multiple YouTubers, including ifixit, it is not possible to upgrade this device on your own. Let’s hope it changes with a firmware update or a new procedure in the future.

If I had spent something like $5000 on a Mac Studio and found this out, I would want to believe with all my heart that all these people are lying or technical dumbasses, but the writing is on the wall, and Apple has done something yet again that shows they are anti-DIY, and that they alone want to have the power to decide when a device is obsolete— they don’t want us trying to extend the life of our devices beyond Apple’s original conception. Tim Cook’s little spiel about "respect for the popular mechanics crowd" was lip service, aimed at staving off legislation—as probably will be their new DIY repair service. It totally sucks.