New Apple Silicon Macs: MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and Mac Mini

[janthonys20]

Why would content creators care about how much time and/or effort it will take developers to port their software to Arm?




You must not have seen how the M1 Macs kick Intel Macs butts.

Are you saying that Intel Macs don't have DRM?

Software and hardware developers who don't want to develop for Apple Silicon don't have to.




The M1 is designed by Apple. It's the same as AMD designing Ryzen CPUs and having TSMC manufacture them.

Yes, the M1 is based on the Arm architecture but is also highly customized. Try running Big Sur on a Raspberry Pi.

Also, the GPU is not part of the Arm architecture. That's all Apple.

ARM processors are licensed out to any company willing to pay ARM for using there design and in paying a licensing fee they get the right to modify registers and call the new design their own unlike Intel and AMD which design and distribute exclusively. The arm architecture was developed and is maintained via updates which companies need to then update their own versions.

And I have absolutely 0 doubt that within the next year someone will figure out how to get Big Sur running on a raspberry pie or even an iPad that's vulnerable to checkm8 because all ARM are fundamentally the same with respect to the 32 bit and 64 bit and so on.

Although this is nowhere near support for running macOS 11 on raspberry pie its an indication of the ability for the two devices to work together which means they can go even further and and figure out the timing differences and thus run macOS on and ARM chip which is similar to the design the M1 is using

Use a Raspberry Pi 4 for Time Machine (works with Big Sur)

Time Machine is built into the system of MacOS and I’m using it since the early days of Mac OS X Leopard. If you have a Raspberry Pi (or…

saschaeggi.medium.com

 

[pastrychef]

ARM processors are licensed out to any company willing to pay ARM for using there design and in paying a licensing fee they get the right to modify registers and call the new design their own unlike Intel and AMD which design and distribute exclusively. The arm architecture was developed and is maintained via updates which companies need to then update their own versions.

And I have absolutely 0 doubt that within the next year someone will figure out how to get Big Sur running on a raspberry pie or even an iPad that's vulnerable to checkm8 because all ARM are fundamentally the same with respect to the 32 bit and 64 bit and so on.

Although this is nowhere near support for running macOS 11 on raspberry pie its an indication of the ability for the two devices to work together which means they can go even further and and figure out the timing differences and thus run macOS on and ARM chip which is similar to the design the M1 is using

Use a Raspberry Pi 4 for Time Machine (works with Big Sur)

Time Machine is built into the system of MacOS and I’m using it since the early days of Mac OS X Leopard. If you have a Raspberry Pi (or…

saschaeggi.medium.com

How will they they get graphics acceleration without the GPU found in the Apple Silicon SoC?

Are you kidding me???? WTF does running a Pi as a NAS have anything to do with running macOS???

 

[scottkendall]

ARM processors are licensed out to any company willing to pay ARM for using there design and in paying a licensing fee they get the right to modify registers and call the new design their own unlike Intel and AMD which design and distribute exclusively. The arm architecture was developed and is maintained via updates which companies need to then update their own versions.

I think you are not fully understanding things about ARM. First of all some companies LIC a full package that includes cores, instruction set, etc. Apple might have done this early on with early versions of their chips in iPhones. But at some point, Apple stopped LIC the cores from ARM and started creating their own cores. So apple LIC the instruction set from ARM but the chip is a fully custom design from Apple engineers and does not use ARM cores it uses apple cores that run the ARM instruction set.

And I have absolutely 0 doubt that within the next year someone will figure out how to get Big Sur running on a raspberry pie or even an iPad that's vulnerable to checkm8 because all ARM are fundamentally the same with respect to the 32 bit and 64 bit and so on.

Even so, the apple ARM chip is light years ahead of Rpi.

Although this is nowhere near support for running macOS 11 on raspberry pie its an indication of the ability for the two devices to work together which means they can go even further and and figure out the timing differences and thus run macOS on and ARM chip which is similar to the design the M1 is using

Use a Raspberry Pi 4 for Time Machine (works with Big Sur)

Time Machine is built into the system of MacOS and I’m using it since the early days of Mac OS X Leopard. If you have a Raspberry Pi (or…

saschaeggi.medium.com

Saying the M1 and the Rpi chips are similar; is like saying Chevy and Ferrari are similar!

 

[janthonys20]

I think you are not fully understanding things about ARM. First of all some companies LIC a full package that includes cores, instruction set, etc. Apple might have done this early on with early versions of their chips in iPhones. But at some point, Apple stopped LIC the cores from ARM and started creating their own cores. So apple LIC the instruction set from ARM but the chip is a fully custom design from Apple engineers and does not use ARM cores it uses apple cores that run the ARM instruction set.


Even so, the apple ARM chip is light years ahead of Rpi.


Saying the M1 and the Rpi chips are similar; is like saying Chevy and Ferrari are similar!

Apple pays ARM for the right to modify their design and implement the custom instruction set that's running in the m1. However they still pay ARM a licensing fee to cut custom silicone with the M1 name and Apple branding and that's because it's arms design that's the basis for what they then build upon. Just like AMD pid intel for x86 design rights. If they didn't need to pay another company to use the basis for their designs then you could call the M1 apples silicone in the truest sence.

It is without a doubt the most impressive arm design to date but ARM processors require Arms firmware tools which are maintained and written by arm in order for apple to create the upgrades to their version of arms design. Arm just has a different approach to chip credit when they are paid they fee they want paid for a company to get the benefits of calling something they truly are behind

Maybe 40% of the m1 design comes from apple the rest is arms

Both chevy and ferrari use the same exact design to implement their versions of vehicles powered by the internal combustion engine. That's a four stage (intake, combustion,power, exhaust) engine design which has been the "architecture" for lack of a better comparison word with cpu design, which 99% of cars ever produced have been powered by. One company uses a process which is designed around specific build quality and a preference to assembly by hand which is the difference between the companies product results which results in one designs higher price tag and more horsepower. Ferraris don't use a completely different propulsion technology.

The fundamental power mechanism that ferrari, toyota and every other car manufacturer has used employs the same design capeble which is why they are all capeble of running on the same gasoline across every version of automible which released using the same design for over 100 years until first actual new propulsion mechanism was bright to market with tesla's preference to use Nichola Tesla's electric induction motor as the methodd of propulsion behind their automobiles design and draws power via electricity

Your comparison illustrates exactly what I'm trying to get across, the m1 is the ferrari or ARM processors its a souped of version of silicone which would not be possible without the arm architecture which is the basis of all ARM chips. If Apple was really producing a silicone that they were responsible completely for its capabilities they wouldn't need to take a design basis from ARM to build their product on top of. All ARM chips are possible because of ARMS creation of the Architecture that powers each and every arm based processor. No matter if arm allows them to build custom cores of only modify instruction sets they are using arms design. It would be one thing if Apple beat out and and intel with a design they created but to build your design on ARM infrastructure and then be awarded this accolade of already building better chips than and and intel doesn't come without the time arms spent making it possible for companies to streamline their own powerful custom chips which require ARMs design which is exactly what the M1 has been made possible by. Its like saying Samsung makes the best android phones around as if All android phones don't run off of the same operating system that google designed and released for free which allows Samsung and all other manufacturers of smartphones that run to be possible in the first place. Samsung makes a great version of smartphones running on a base made for them and any other hardware maker to use which is why so many android phones exist because google did all the hard work along time ago and are nice enough to make available to other companies to use and call their own too. But Samsung didn't create their own operating system even and google doesn't stipulate that their use of its OS requires that they inform their customers who did.

 

[scottkendall]

WOW Boom Crit for 10,000 ***

Apple pays ARM for the right to modify their design and implement the custom instruction set that's running in the m1. However they still pay ARM a licensing fee to cut custom silicone with the M1 name and Apple branding and that's because it's arms design that's the basis for what they then build upon. Just like AMD pid intel for x86 design rights. If they didn't need to pay another company to use the basis for their designs then you could call the M1 apples silicone in the truest sence.

Exactly like intel your right in that they licensed the instruction set and then went on to create the x64 version and then did the same to intel. But the AMD and the intel chip were nothing alike to this day they are not.

It is without a doubt the most impressive arm design to date but ARM processors require Arms firmware tools which are maintained and written by arm in order for apple to create the upgrades to their version of arms design. Arm just has a different approach to chip credit when they are paid they fee they want paid for a company to get the benefits of calling something they truly are behind

Maybe 40% of the m1 design comes from apple the rest is arms

At some point this might have been true however, at some point apple diverged. Don't get me wrong the M1 100% speaks ARM langue and it processes the data per ARM standards but the silicon is of apple design.

Both chevy and ferrari use the same exact design to implement their versions of vehicles powered by the internal combustion engine. That's a four stage (intake, combustion,power, exhaust) engine design which has been the "architecture" for lack of a better comparison word with cpu design, which 99% of cars ever produced have been powered by. One company uses a process which is designed around specific build quality and a preference to assembly by hand which is the difference between the companies product results which results in one designs higher price tag and more horsepower. Ferraris don't use a completely different propulsion technology. The fundamental power mechanism that ferrari, toyota and every other car manufacturer has used employs the same design capeble which is why they are all capeble of running on the same gasoline across every version of automible which released using the same design for over 100 years until first actual new propulsion mechanism was bright to market with tesla's preference to use Nichola Tesla's electric induction motor as the methodd of propulsion behind their automobiles design and draws power via electricity

The Gas would actually be more like the Electricity that powers the silicon thus making the same method of propulsion the same across the board. However, just like AMD and Intel instruction set war that was all they shared. Sure there might have been some other technologies they battled in court over the years where they each did something a little different to accomplish the same means. My comparison

Your comparison illustrates exactly what I'm trying to get across, the m1 is the ferrari or ARM processors its a souped of version of silicone which would not be possible without the arm architecture which is the basis of all ARM chips. If Apple was really producing a silicone that they were responsible completely for its capabilities they wouldn't need to take a design basis from ARM to build their product on top of. All ARM chips are possible because of ARMS creation of the Architecture that powers each and every arm based processor. No matter if arm allows them to build custom cores of only modify instruction sets they are using arms design. It would be one thing if Apple beat out and and intel with a design they created but to build your design on ARM infrastructure and then be awarded this accolade of already building better chips than and and intel doesn't come without the time arms spent making it possible for companies to streamline their own powerful custom chips which require ARMs design which is exactly what the M1 has been made possible by.

You do realize that ARM instruction set was actually originally a Apple co created IP? You realize that the Power PC CPU also was a Apple co created IP? To think Apple could not or did not design their own chip would be ignorant.

Yes ARM has chips that are streamlined for others, but apple diverged from that path long ago.

Its like saying Samsung makes the best android phones around as if All android phones don't run off of the same operating system that google designed and released for free which allows Samsung and all other manufacturers of smartphones that run to be possible in the first place. Samsung makes a great version of smartphones running on a base made for them and any other hardware maker to use which is why so many android phones exist because google did all the hard work along time ago and are nice enough to make available to other companies to use and call their own too. But Samsung didn't create their own operating system even and google doesn't stipulate that their use of its OS requires that they inform their customers who did.

You mean Linux did the work a long time ago... Google just put a pretty face on it and added some drivers and called it android..

 

[janthonys20]

WOW Boom Crit for 10,000 ***


Exactly like intel your right in that they licensed the instruction set and then went on to create the x64 version and then did the same to intel. But the AMD and the intel chip were nothing alike to this day they are not.






At some point this might have been true however, at some point apple diverged. Don't get me wrong the M1 100% speaks ARM langue and it processes the data per ARM standards but the silicon is of apple design.

The Gas would actually be more like the Electricity that powers the silicon thus making the same method of propulsion the same across the board. However, just like AMD and Intel instruction set war that was all they shared. Sure there might have been some other technologies they battled in court over the years where they each did something a little different to accomplish the same means. My comparison


You do realize that ARM instruction set was actually originally a Apple co created IP? You realize that the Power PC CPU also was a Apple co created IP? To think Apple could not or did not design their own chip would be ignorant.

Yes ARM has chips that are streamlined for others, but apple diverged from that path long ago.


You mean Linux did the work a long time ago... Google just put a pretty face on it and added some drivers and called it android..

Apple was the direct competition of Acorn and had nothing to do with the creation of the ARM architecture. Apples role in power pc was nothing but as the party which was supposed to build an operating system on a ibm and motorola made cpu to compete with Intel and windows as well as the licensing of Mac clones to run the software apple build on machines made by 3rd party’s.


“ARM Holdings neither manufactures nor sells CPU devices based on its own designs, but rather licenses the processor architecture to interested parties. ARM offers a variety of licensing terms, varying in cost and deliverables. To all licensees, ARM provides an integrative hardware description of the ARM core, as well as complete software development toolset and the right to sell manufactured silicon containing the ARM CPU.”

I know you really love apple hardware and so do I but the M1 is apples cpu about as much as the sun is Teslas desing for its solar panels ability to produce electricity

and Linux is a kernel, it’s designed to allow for the communication of a wide range of hardware to speak with a base file system upon which an operating system is built thanks to its design.

 

[pastrychef]

I know you really love apple hardware and so do I but the M1 is apples cpu about as much as the sun is Teslas desing for its solar panels ability to produce electricity

You're making the Apple Silicon SoCs sound like an off the shelf commodity component. You are forgetting that on the SoC, there's also the custom Neural Engine and the custom GPU on that SoC. These are all Apple and has nothing to do with Arm.

 

[scottkendall]

Apple was the direct competition of Acorn and had nothing to do with the creation of the ARM architecture. Apples role in power pc was nothing but as the party which was supposed to build an operating system on a ibm and motorola made cpu to compete with Intel and windows as well as the licensing of Mac clones to run the software apple build on machines made by 3rd party’s.

Sure the early years of Acorn they were in direct competition when apple but in later years they worked with apple to establish more powerful cores and chip designs. Regarding the Power PC chip Apple had as much to do with the creation as IBM and Motorola.

“ARM Holdings neither manufactures nor sells CPU devices based on its own designs, but rather licenses the processor architecture to interested parties. ARM offers a variety of licensing terms, varying in cost and deliverables. To all licensees, ARM provides an integrative hardware description of the ARM core, as well as complete software development toolset and the right to sell manufactured silicon containing the ARM CPU.”

ARM sells full designs, and they sell fragment designs. Apple uses one part of ARM and that is the instruction set used to dictate the data sets that need to be sent to the CPU from the software. Once the Data set hits the decoder on the CPU what happens is apples design.

I know you really love apple hardware and so do I but the M1 is apples cpu about as much as the sun is Teslas desing for its solar panels ability to produce electricity

If you are talking about regular old panels Tesla does not even attempt to design or change them they just resale them. If you are talking about a Tesla Roof, they licenses the solar cell designs but the rest of the roof tiles are of Tesla's designs.

I am not sure Love is the correct word I think they create very nice ascetic products. But the M1 is of apples design, to read ARM instruction set. ARM is less Architecture and more of a Style of Architecture, it requires a certain sub set of devices but how they are used is up to the designer. As @pastrychef pointed out Neural engine and custom GPU are 100% apple that has nothing to do with ARM, but cores also are apples yes they have to be designed to understand the ARM instruction set but that does not make the designed by ARM.

and Linux is a kernel, it’s designed to allow for the communication of a wide range of hardware to speak with a base file system upon which an operating system is built thanks to its design.

No Linux is an Operating system without a GUI, Android is a GUI build on Linux it maybe heavily modified but it is still built on Linux.

 

[UtterDisbelief]

A few people have been complaining about software compatibility with the new M1 silicon. Beside the fact that Rosetta 2 seems to run everything Intel I've thrown at it, I think just about all the software I use daily has been upgraded to Apple Silicon. It's just the whiny big-companies that are slow to convert. You know who they are ...

For example - my software native M1:

iWork - all apps, Pages, Numbers, Keynote, GarageBand and iMovie.
All macOS standard utilities of course.
Serif Affinity graphics and publishing software
My financial accounts software of choice - Checkbook Pro 2 by Splasm
Firefox
Google Chrome (not Google Earth)
Disk Catalog Maker
iMazing
MacJournal
Unbound - photo viewer
KeePassXC - password wallet

With that lot I keep very productive. True a lot of complex games have yet to port but I don't play much.

Incidentally I cleaned Google apps off my Mac Mini after seeing the problems their update engine was causing. Believe it or not I now run the Windows version of Google Earth, on Crossover (which is Intel so on top of Rosetta 2). This keeps it isolated. And you know what? It works absolutely fine! That kind of layer on layer is "just working". How cool is that?