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Apple Reveals macOS 10.14 Mojave at WWDC - Available Fall 2018

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I don't understand that graph... When I run the Geekbench 4 Metal benchmark, my score is nothing like those.
View attachment 334666
For reference, the chart posted by Michelinu is from barefeats.com.

This is my score with RX580.
Schermata 2018-06-06 alle 17.24.33.png

Maybe with macOS Mojave also Nvidia GPUs will run better. Maybe I'll borrow a GTX 1070 from one of my friends once it will be released for public.



Apple is moving many parts of FCPX to Metal, and most likely 100% Metal by 10.15 (2019).

Apple has always been about open standards like OpenGL and OpenCL, the latter which they helped develop.

Once the next major update to macOS moves 100% Metal, companies like Adobe HAVE to move to 100% Metal (which they do currently support, but performance is subpar).

CUDA on the other hand will be depreciated, because no current Mac has an NVIDIA GPU. The last NVIDIA GPU capable Mac was from 2014 (MacBook Pro 15"). Also Apple doesn't officially support NVIDIA eGPUs.

Apple is clearly forcing OpenCL and CUDA (which hasn't been working properly for years now anyway) out the door from macOS, which I am ok with, as long as Metal is taken seriously, I'm happy with that.

Companies like OToy are building Octane to work with Metal soon, and it will be here in about 9 months from now. I'm curious to see how things progress in this area.

Also regarding NVIDIA vs AMD...AMD has always had better compute performance in general and NVIDIA had better overall 3D performance fine tuned for gaming. OpenCL performance with NVIDIA has always been subpar. CUDA on the other hand has always been a performance king, but many companies don't want to tie themselves into NVIDIAs ecosystem like that, and Apple and AMD have always relied on open standards like OpenCL.

Since Metal is not an open standard I think that Apple can still co-operate with Nvidia to get Metal work fine with their cards. Nvidia will be still able to improve CUDA for Windows and will gain market to the detriment of AMD.



@pastrychef.. Nevermind, thats another random internet website mislead information as we used always to see when it come to Nvidia vs AMD thing, probably website payed by Nvidia or simply done by an Nvidia fanboy.
it shoes Vega 64 4144 score lmao, meanwhile my Vega 64 is over 200K.
Actually from now on as 10.14 welling to support only Metal, the GTX cards should be used only for gaming on Windows there where they should be, never anywhere else.

I think that if thanks to Metal the Nvidia GPUs will reach AMD performance in FCPX they'll be a good compromise. Unfortunately AMD cards are very hot and Vega are still expensive. Nvidia GTX are still the best choice for gaming but in this moment they're useless for FCPX.
 
This is my score with RX580.
View attachment 334679

Maybe with macOS Mojave also Nvidia GPUs will run better. Maybe I'll borrow a GTX 1070 from one of my friends once it will be released for public.





Since Metal is not an open standard I think that Apple can still co-operate with Nvidia to get Metal work fine with their cards. Nvidia will be still able to improve CUDA for Windows and will gain market to the detriment of AMD.





I think that if thanks to Metal the Nvidia GPUs will reach AMD performance in FCPX they'll be a good compromise. Unfortunately AMD cards are very hot and Vega are still expensive. Nvidia GTX are still the best choice for gaming but in this moment they're useless for FCPX.

But Apple has already officially published their supported graphics cards, so why to hope something that Apple didn't even thought about?
Either way the problem is not completely on Apple GPU support, the problem is that Webdriver being buggy to point it is sometimes useless even on normal daily tasks. So why demanding even more?

I also hear about AMD GPUs run hot, but when I had my GTX 980Ti it ran at 86C where my current Vega 64 barely reaches 80C, so can somebody please give me the light on that?
The fact they still expensive is because people still prefer to have those Vega cards over the current GTX ones. So thats a no go for price correction.

Something else, Metal 1 and 2 was already there on macOS version, but still didn't make GTX run better or even close to AMD GPU on Adobe or FCPX, so how would that change now with Mojave ?

For example: This is how my desktop looked like sometimes back then with 980Ti and the latest and greatest Webdriver.
IMG_2775.JPG
 
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In which point does ms innovate more ? The last updates they threw out were pretty useless , new emohies wooo etc ...
Your right. Ms is not innovative either. Apple is playing it safe. It’s just a little frustrating to see the lack of hardware updates for the Mac.
 
Since Metal is not an open standard I think that Apple can still co-operate with Nvidia to get Metal work fine with their cards. Nvidia will be still able to improve CUDA for Windows and will gain market to the detriment of AMD.

It's not up to Apple to work with NVIDIA. They literally have no working relationship at all right now since no Mac has an NVIDIA GPU. There's obviously some kind of beef going on there, most likely due to failed NVIDIA GPUs and class action lawsuit against Apple many years ago had something to do with it. And also NVIDIAs hard and dirty tactics in general probably put off Apple.

AMD makes GPUs for gaming consoles too and they most likely play along with whatever Apple wants and needs while NVIDIA doesn't, hence the relationship. Also Apple hired a bunch of AMD engineers to work on Metal over the last few years.

It is obvious that NVIDIA with their "unofficial" (as they put it) WebDrivers, have not optimized for Metal at all. This is the reason why I sold my 980Ti's and moved to AMD because I was tired of waiting for that. High Sierra transitioned to Metal for the subsystem and NVIDIA hasn't optimized their drivers at all.

Also CUDA drivers were also very buggy with graphical glitches.

NVIDIA under Windows is fine, obviously, along with CUDA.

Apple still holds a big marketshare for creative professionals, so it's going to be interesting to see what happens with Adobe+Metal over the upcoming months to a year.
 
Ok I understand, my experience are all wrong, the video posted on YouTube with real life benchmarking also wrong, only you are right. good to know.

So you're saying OpenCL has better performance than CUDA both under macOS and Windows? You couldn't be further from the truth here.
 
Was it anounced whether hey are definitely killing 32-bits applications? I have few no longer supported which I would hate to loose. :(

I'm in the same boat as you Dziny.

My understanding is that Mojave will continue to support 32-bit apps, but it's the LAST OS release that will.

That begs a broader, future question - is there anything in the Hackintosh world that could PERMIT running 32-bit apps even if the OS "forbids" them, or is this doomsday scenario baked into the OS?
 
Was it anounced whether hey are definitely killing 32-bits applications? I have few no longer supported which I would hate to loose. :(

I'm in the same boat as you Dziny.

My understanding is that Mojave will continue to support 32-bit apps, but it's the LAST OS release that will.

That begs a broader, future question - is there anything in the Hackintosh world that could PERMIT running 32-bit apps even if the OS "forbids" them, or is this doomsday scenario baked into the OS?

Kapn is correct, 10.14 will be the last release to support 32-bit apps — users will be shown a warning on launch for any 32-bit apps they open. 10.15 will remove 32-bit support entirely.

Once this happens, it would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) for 32-bit support to be grafted back on, because Apple is simply going to remove the 32-bit Objective-C runtime and frameworks. Same with OpenGL/CL: 10.14 will still have the frameworks in this release for compatibility reasons, but they'll be completely removed eventually.

Even for 64-bit apps, Apple is talking about a new 'hardened runtime' in 10.14 that, while currently optional, will be required to be used for any Developer ID-signed apps.

I actually thought the same a few times already. On tvs already some old a9 chips, they would have laying around, would most likely make huge improvements. When i look @ my OLED LG TV it could really need some performance boost.

But actually if I could choose a Company apple should buy or coorporate with then it would be Nintendo. There would be so much potential in such a combination. Imagine Mario Games or even old Wii games shine on the apple tv. A Nintendo Handheld with an A10X and a nice screen.

With apple taking care of performance of the devices and a nice usable Interface and the unique Nintendo Games this could be simply awesome. Also There would be no reason why they wouldn't get the tripple A titles like other consoles.

Before the Switch came out, I was definitely of the opinion that Nintendo should have just used the Apple TV as their hardware platform, and stick to making great games and controllers. Although the Tegra X1 is definitely a drag on what's possible at the high-end, I see lots of Switch owners taking full advantage of portable mode, so I think Nintendo did the best they could with what hardware was available off-the-shelf. Apparently Nintendo got some good terms out of Nvidia — the latter apparently being rather desperate for a console win — so I wouldn't be surprised to see them make a die-shrunk or Pascal-based Tegra down the line, so Nintendo can pitch a revised model with better battery life.

I also noticed this, apple even added APFS support for old mechanical hard drives and fusion drives, why they would do something like that? to expand support or it is because they want to get rid of HFS+ and they want only APFS

we all know that Mojave will be the last OS to support 32 bit apps, could it also be that Mojave will be the last OS to support HFS+ , I think apple is moving on to APFS only

I doubt HFS+ support will go away anytime soon. All the AppKit-related file access APIs are abstracted from the actual filesystem. Also, Macs had support for legacy HFS (non-plus) filesystems for a looong time (and maybe still do? I forget).

APFS on mechanical hard drives has been a performance disaster in 10.13, due to the implementation being tuned for SSDs. In other words, APFS tends to spread out and fragment files if it thinks an SSD can access them faster that way, which causes a mechanical drive head to thrash. In 10.14, APFS will be getting a proper defragmenter to keep that in check when using mechanical drives.

(As an aside: yikes, I wonder what Apple discovered that caused them to pull Fusion Drive support at the last minute last year)

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/5/17432568/amd-threadripper-32-core-processor-gaming-computex-2018

Ok this is crazy. Most likely it will cost $1,799 for 32c/64t. I wonder if Apple is even thinking about AMD CPUs.

If Apple is doing any due diligence on Mac hardware development nowadays, they've been paying attention to AMD's Zen architecture starting to come into its own. Zen APUs are essentially what Apple has been pushing Intel to make all these years: A decent CPU with a better-than-integrated GPU in a low-power package. Given how Apple's appearing to go all-in on Metal, AMD's chips would seem like a good match.

That said, if Apple has already internally committed to making in-house SoCs for Macs down the line (as their Portland job postings seem to indicate), spending time to implement AMD support might be brushed aside as a distraction at this stage.
 
Apple products use AMD gpu.

Metal works with AMD and Intel igpu.

Thank God for AMD because Nvidia price is super high, now everyone can game and use for edit on Mac.

And one more thing... Nvidia Optimus that ruined hackintosh laptops.
 
No I said nothing, I said all world is wrong and only you are right.. good night sleep well

If you have better performance in Premiere Pro with OpenCL than CUDA then you have a magical computer. Maybe you're doing something different than me? I'd like to know how you get good performance...Would be nice to share.
 
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