[Guide] Avoid APFS conversion on High Sierra update or fresh install

[gvkt]

Just wanted to pass along a tip that might make it easier to avoid the APFS conversion as described in this thread. May want to include the tip in post #1.

If you install to an external drive using a USB dock/enclosure for your SSD, it will not convert it to APFS (doesn't see it as a SSD?). You don't need to do anything else and you can use the installer GUI to start and select any target.

I discovered this because I was not able to use the suggested method. My drive in the laptop has dual boot partition and updates since Sierra have complained about updating the Mac partition without making the other partition non-bootable and quit. So, my procedure has always been to clone to an external drive with just a single partition, update that drive and then clone back to my mac partition. The latter is also a safe way to test an upgrade without potentially crippling the machine if the install fails.

Unfortunately, Apple has removed the -volume option in the High Sierra command line install so using the suggested command line method to update won't work if you want to target an external drive and updating the main drive won't work because of other partitions on it.

Of course, you can also use a non-SSD in the external drive if that is what you have and the conversion will not be an issue and so it will still work in this clone and upgrade method but I find upgrading with a SSD is so much faster. So, I keep a spare SSD just for that purpose. Just wanted to let people know that you can do this even with an external SSD without automatic conversion using a USB dock/enclosure.

 

[RehabMan]

Hello all at tonymacx86 !!!
Just to ask for some help.
I have started the update process from Sierra to High Sierra.
I have done all the mentioned steps (updated clover, kexts, the terminal process)
and everything was made with careful and following the instructions.
When my computer restarts and I select from the "install macOS" option in clover,
it starts very well, with a big apple in the center of the screen and the white little bar
under it, showing the process status.
My problem is that, when it has gone through about 50% the process appears to stop, and,
then, this white "spinner" appears under the white bar and start to circle around (just
like waiting for something) until the installation process enters in a "Bear Hug" and
never ends !!!!!!
By the way, let me tell you that the computer NEVER reboots several times as mentioned
in the instructions for installing High Sierra.
So, everytime, I have being forced to cancel the update process and rebooting with my
original Sierra install.
PLEASE, any ideas on how to solve this ?????? Thank in advance !!!
Rafael

Off-topic.

Follow the Clover guide linked from the FAQ.
http://www.tonymacx86.com/el-capita...faq-read-first-laptop-frequent-questions.html

Although you should read the FAQ for an overview of issues, the Clover guide is linked from the first question: "Q. Where do I start?", just after the bold face "Clover Guide".
Here is a direct link, just to be clear:
https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/guide-booting-the-os-x-installer-on-laptops-with-clover.148093/

Also, your profile must be filled out with complete details as requested in the FAQ, again under "Q. Where do I start?". All seven details requested are equally important.

And if you have an issue (after following the guide), or on any other problem, you must provide a detailed description of the problem including information that helps us understand what you're doing. Always attach "Problem Reporting" files as per FAQ.
http://www.tonymacx86.com/el-capita...faq-read-first-laptop-frequent-questions.html
The required files and data are fully detailed in the last question in the FAQ:
"Q. What are typical "Problem Reporting" files?"

 

[RehabMan]

At this moment with a Samsung SSD 840 EVO 120Gb and clover trim patch working without issues. However, I keep the backup copy in HFS+... I'm not sure if I'll have any problems or not in the future.

Running APFS on my BRIX with TRIM patch enabled. No problems with slow boot. SSD is Samsung 850 EVO (mSATA).
No problem either on my NUC7 or NUC6 with a Plextor SSD.
And my NUC6i7KYK is running APFS with TRIM using a Samsung SM951/AHCI/PCIex4 SSD without issue.
On my NUC5 (Samsung 850 EVO M.2), I updated as HFS+J with startosinstall (this computer is primarily a Windows machine using Windows 7 with Media Center for TV/DVR duties, so I didn't want to risk much with the update).
On my Lenovo u430 (Samsung 840 EVO), I updated as HFS+J with startosinstall. I may convert this one to APFS later.
And with my Z270/i7-7700k desktop (Mushkin Deluxe2), enabling TRIM also causes slow boot on APFS, but that was also the case with this specific SSDT on HFS+.

On my ProBook 4540s with Crucial M4, had to disable the TRIM patch to avoid the slow boot delay.

I think the problems with APFS+TRIM+non-Apple SSD may depend on SSD hardware/firmware.
Some devices will present a problem, some not.

Easy fix: Disable TRIM (SATA only, NVMe is always TRIM enabled) or use HFS+ instead of APFS.

 

[RehabMan]

Has any of you tried to run the update avoiding APFS conversion on a CoreStorage SSD + HDD drive? Was it successful?

Probably best to revert the core storage setup before you begin (google 'core storage revert').

 

[RehabMan]

USB dock/enclosure for your SSD, it will not convert it to APFS (doesn't see it as a SSD?).

Correct.

Unfortunately, Apple has removed the -volume option in the High Sierra command line install so using the suggested command line method to update won't work if you want to target an external drive and updating the main drive won't work because of other partitions on it.

Wrong.

SPEEDY-NUC:~ rehabman$ /Applications/Install\ macOS\ High\ Sierra.app/Contents/Resources/startosinstall --usage
Usage: startosinstall --volume <target volume path>

Arguments
--applicationpath, a path to copy of the OS installer application to start the install with.
--license, prints the user license agreement only.
--agreetolicense, agree to license the license you printed with --license.
--rebootdelay, how long to delay the reboot at the end of preparing. This delay is in seconds and has a maximum of 300 (5 minutes).
--pidtosignal, Specify a PID to which to send SIGUSR1 upon completion of the prepare phase. To bypass "rebootdelay" send SIGUSR1 back to startosinstall.
--converttoapfs, specify either YES or NO on if you wish to convert to APFS.
--installpackage, the path of a package to install after the OS installation is complete; this option can be specified multiple times.
--usage, prints this message.
--volume, path to the target volume.

Example: startosinstall --volume /Volumes/Target --converttoapfs YES

 

[ddorbuck]

You could always just unplug that Windows drive during installation...

thank you. indeed i will

 

[ddorbuck]

The installer will only convert the macOS system volume to APFS.
All other volumes, no matter which disk they are on will not be converted.

thank you for your reply.

 

[macnb]

Noticed on one of my systems (Crucial M4 SSD) that I had to disable the TRIM patch. With TRIM, getting slow boots, I think fsck was running each time, so slow that battery status failed (due to battery code starting too soon, before the system was ready, was able to fix that by changing "FirstPollDelay" from 4000 to 16000, but that problem went away when I disabled TRIM). For now, running that system withou the TRIM patch.

I have a Crucial MX300 750GB SSD. I triple boot Win10, 10.11 & 10.12.
I used the startosinstall method to upgrade the 10.11 to 10.13 without conversion.
There's was no issues with SSD (still HFS+ I guess) but what I did notice was that I can now turn OFF TRIM patch in Clover for 10.13 and TRIM is still enabled by the OS:

~$ system_profiler SPSerialATADataType | grep 'TRIM'
          TRIM Support: Yes
~$

This was partial output from Clover log showing TRIM patch was not applied:

5:110  0:000  Filtering KextPatches:
5:110  0:000   - [00]: IOAHCIBlockStorage (TRIM function for non-Apple SSDs) :: BinPatch :: [OS: 10.13 | MatchOS: 10.12.x | MatchBuild: All] ==> not allowed
5:110  0:000   - [01]: AppleUSBXHCIPCI (change 15 port limit to 20 in XHCI kext) :: BinPatch :: [OS: 10.13 | MatchOS: 10.12.x | MatchBuild: All] ==> not allowed
5:110  0:000   - [02]: com.apple.driver.usb.AppleUSBXHCIPCI (change 15 port limit to 26 in XHCI kext) :: BinPatch :: [OS: 10.13 | MatchOS: 10.13.x | MatchBuild: All] ==> allowed

Booting seems a little longer (~4-5 seconds).
So 3rd party SSD's are now supported by 10.13 (well certainly Crucial).

Thanks for the guide on USB installer and how to turn OFF the APFS conversion on clean installs.

 

[RehabMan]

I have a Crucial MX300 750GB SSD. I triple boot Win10, 10.11 & 10.12.
I used the startosinstall method to upgrade the 10.11 to 10.13 without conversion.
There's was no issues with SSD (still HFS+ I guess) but what I did notice was that I can now turn OFF TRIM patch in Clover for 10.13 and TRIM is still enabled by the OS:

~$ system_profiler SPSerialATADataType | grep 'TRIM'
          TRIM Support: Yes
~$

This was partial output from Clover log showing TRIM patch was not applied:

5:110  0:000  Filtering KextPatches:
5:110  0:000   - [00]: IOAHCIBlockStorage (TRIM function for non-Apple SSDs) :: BinPatch :: [OS: 10.13 | MatchOS: 10.12.x | MatchBuild: All] ==> not allowed
5:110  0:000   - [01]: AppleUSBXHCIPCI (change 15 port limit to 20 in XHCI kext) :: BinPatch :: [OS: 10.13 | MatchOS: 10.12.x | MatchBuild: All] ==> not allowed
5:110  0:000   - [02]: com.apple.driver.usb.AppleUSBXHCIPCI (change 15 port limit to 26 in XHCI kext) :: BinPatch :: [OS: 10.13 | MatchOS: 10.13.x | MatchBuild: All] ==> allowed

Booting seems a little longer (~4-5 seconds).
So 3rd party SSD's are now supported by 10.13 (well certainly Crucial).

Thanks for the guide on USB installer and how to turn OFF the APFS conversion on clean installs.

You probably have TRIM enabled with trimforce.

No "Problem Reporting" files attached.
Read FAQ, "Problem Reporting" again. Carefully. Attach all requested files/output.
https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/faq-read-first-laptop-frequent-questions.164990/

 

[vulgo]

Booting seems a little longer (~4-5 seconds).
So 3rd party SSD's are now supported by 10.13 (well certainly Crucial).

Maybe trimforce has been run at some point?